Hi guys -

I'm having a bit of a dilemma right now. I'm still in tennis training (1 hour/day high intensity) but my problems with sprinting haven't abated over the months maintaining a pretty low carb count. I'm worried I'm overtraining, as whenever I have to do sprints I find them VERY hard, I sweat a lot and my heartrate goes up possibly too high. It takes me awhile to recover from each sprint, and I can not do them in succession. I'm wondering if this is too much of a strain.

I'm not sleeping very well, and now I have the added problem that my appetite has gone COMPLETELY kaput. Everything else is fine healthwise, and I'm happy to be rid of my bulimia (going on quite a few months on low-carb). I need to eat to get fuel, but everything is turning me off. The only thing I like is raw egg yolks with cream and cocoa (weird but true). Solid protein meats etc. is really not enticing to me.

Anyway, obviously I may need to raise my carbs for tennis, but due to my previous eating disorder I'm a bit worried about how much will make a difference without pushing me back into bingeing. I know I've gone on about this before, just wanted any experiences with carb grams. I would like my appetite to come back a little, but not so much I start pigging out again.

Can overtraining lead to insomnia and appetite loss?? Or is it just the ketosis?

BTW, other problems such as skin disorders and concentration are good.

Thanks!

I should mention I do eat quite a few vegetables, and manage to get cheese down. I would say my carbs vary from about 30-40 average a day. I eat nuts but have been avoiding any kind of fruit as it brings back memories of bingeing.

Also, my endurance on the tennis court is very good, and I am alert and ready for more at the end of the session, but NOT MORE SPRINTS!!

Just a suggestion, but you need more carbs especially for sprints. Rather than eating more, you might try carb gels like Gu or Hammergel. Hammergel comes in a reusable flask so you only bring enough to get through the workout. Their website says Hammergel gets into the bloodstream quickly without raising insulin. Binging can be caused by low blood sugar.

Hi-

The problem is I live in Chile so can't get that stuff here. Also I would rather go the natural route and eat whole foods for my energy (no offense btw).

Is a bowl of berries really going to make much difference? I mean, how high do I have to go to get the energy I need? How much glycogen does the liver hold? Do I even need to go beyond this number?

Hi, Loops:

I can certainly understand your concern if you are a recovering bulimic, but based upon your stated symptoms, I don't think you are suffering from classic overtraining (although both Basedowic and Addisonic overtraining have anorexia as a symptom). I think your problem is simpler, which is carb-lack for anaerobic work.

For cardio, or aerobic work, like tennis, your body will initially burn glycogen, but then it primarily turns to burning FAT. On a low-carb diet, taking in a lot of protein, you naturally also get more than enough fat, so your tennis workouts are adequately fueled. BUT, when your body does anaerobic work - IOW, weightlifting or SPRINTS, you burn almost exclusively glucose. (It's funny, I was just posting about glucose on the low-intensity board!). When you eat insufficient carbs, your body WILL turn ingested protein into glucose, BUT your brain needs it first. Your brain uses up to 66% of all circulating glucose BEFORE the rest of you gets it. When you're eating a standard athlete's diet, you get plenty of carb, which means plenty of glucose for both your brain AND your muscles, but when you're low-carbing, well....you see the problem.

Simply put, your muscles are out of gas for the high-intensity demand you are putting on them during the sprints, which is why it's like plowing through molasses and why it takes you so long to recover. You have enough fat for the low-intensity, aerobic work (tennis), but you're asking your muscles to work with almost zero fuel for the sprints. You need to find a lo-cal carbohydrate source (I live on "Power Gel" by the company that makes Power Bars, it's only 100 calories in a handy little carry-pack), or give up the sprints. (You can easily experiment about this by taking in adequate carbs for 2 days, and THEN try sprints...it's easy enough to figure out if you need to add fuel to the equation).

I hope that was helpful,

Thanks peanut 16 -

that was very useful! Because of my bulimia, obviously I am going to be cautious about this. What happened a couple of years back I don't want to happen again (started eating lots of fruit and sent me flying off the other way for a year).

However, I also want to enjoy my tennis instead of - you put it so well, 'plowing through molasses'! This is EXACTLY what it feels like.

So, I am wondering if eating say a banana immediately before hitting the court will work. I would rather keep my carbs low the rest of the day as I have no problems getting enough energy for normal day to day activities (even swimming is ok).

I was thinking, why not just have a big tomato smoothie before, but it takes too long to digest. I think a banana or some dried fruit might be better so I can use the energy up immediately on court.

I know this doesn't make much sense, but due to the ED I am quite anxious to maintain low insulin the rest of the day as it really really helps.

If I eat sufficient protein/fat earlier on, then the banana immediately before tennis, will I get low blood sugar I wonder?

Thanks so much

In the ultra marathon world, plain tomato juice is popular but only because it is believed that the fiber slows absorption of sugar for less of an effect on blood sugar. But at the same time. another favorite at the aid stations is boiled potatoes dipped in salt. Potatoes are known to raise blood sugar faster than pure table sugar. Probably because of enzymes in the potato.

If there's a problem, it's that when sugar gets into the blood quickly, the pancreus releases insulin just as quickly. but under exercise extremes, sugar enters the muscles without the need for insulin.

In the ultra world we call it "Bonking" when you run out of blood sugar completely. Yes, the body will start turning protein into sugar but it's a slow process. I never found I could run well with a belly full of salmon.

Peanut, I have to say I found that post very interesting and informative. Thanks.

What you're feeling is - as mentioned by kaypeeoh - "bonking." It's like hitting a wall of exhaustion, or burn...it means that you just desperately need glucose to fuel that anaerobic work.



Yes, as discussed, you're getting plenty of fat to fuel the aerobic work and your daily activities; it's the high-intensity anaerobic work that you're struggling with.



Myself, I prefer the tomato smoothie with 6 grams of psyllium fiber, about 1-2 hours before my high-intensity workout. I add the fiber to slow the uptake and because it's filling. As I mentioned in my previous post, I gulp "power gel," a high-carbo, fast-uptake gel, before & during both my hi-intensity workouts and my weight-training workouts so I can access the glucose. It's 26 gms of carb, so it would be equivalent to about one banana - I don't know offhand what the equivalency would be in dried fruit.

I suspect - although I cannot be sure since I don't know the rest of your dietary intake - you could probably afford to do both - the tomato smoothie with fiber 1-2 hours prior to your workout, and the banana about 15-30 minutes before (I'd go with 30...stomach cramps SUCK!). I am guessing this because of the amount and intensity of your exercise, but only you can know your diet and needs. Don't starve your muscles, it's self-defeating...as kaypeeoh pointed out, he wasn't able to ultra-perform on protein alone.

BTW, the brain's appetite for glucose is THE reason that low-carbers get logy and have "brain fog;" because not enough carbs are eaten to fuel the brain's high-volume need for glucose. (Today's trivia tip, <smile>).

Hope this helps,

You're welcome, and I am always happy when something I have contributed has value to someone else. Hang in there!!

Hiya Loops!

When you get a chance, do a search on TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet). It's exactly what Peanut and KPO are talking about.......low carb all day, except for carbs targeted around your lifting/sprinting workout. According to Lyle McDonald, a keto guru , pre workout carbs can be anything you like. The lower the GI, the longer the time span should be from eating to working out. (Depends on your body.) The higher the GI, the closer to your workout you should eat it (immediately, in the case of dextrose or one of those glucose gels).

Some people also like to take post workout carbs to help with recovery...these carbs should NOT be fructose or sucrose based (as they will help to refill liver glycogen, and your aim is to return to ketosis quickly).

Most people find that these pre workout carbs are used up quickly during exercise, and no lingering after-effects, but if you feel you need it, you can do 10-20 minutes of low intensity cardio to help "burn" up the the excess blood sugar.

thanks so much -

I feel more confident now about eating more carbs prior to training. Yesterday wasn't that successful as I didn't add enough carbs (1 cup blueberries with cream, plus about 1oz of banana). I was still not my optimal sprinting self. It doesn't help with it being so hot here in the sun - I'm losing a lot of fluids. Also my trainer KEEPS PUSHING ME, because usually I respond pretty well.

So today I'm going to try more fruit (with cream). 30g carb straight before training and see where that puts me.

I was relieved though yesterday that I didn't get low blood sugar after tennis and appetite was as usual, pretty low even after training.

Thanks for that link Dane - very interesting! I had always wondered what TKD meant.

My update!

I'm doing so much better. I'm having a large banana mashed up with cream 1/2 hour before my training, and also a few nuts to slow things down as much as possible.

The banana seems to be enough for an hour of intense training. Sprints are better, and my weight/appetite don't seem to be changing (well, it's only been a few days). I wonder how far I can push this? i.e. juice in water for during as well. I'm still not reaching full strength on the sprints, but at least I can move 2 sprints in a row instead of just crapping out after one.

Thanks everybody!

I am long distance runner, and I always eat banana and peanut butter before I run. This includes speed work etc. It seems to give me long lasting energy and more endurance.

Hi danarobin5 -

thanks for your input - can I ask how many carbs you take in total during the day? Yesterday I had trouble actually digesting the banana in time and ended up having a very sluggish training session (I ate lunch too late). I'm wondering if it's possible to lose fat on 60-70g carbs a day. Before I've lost little bits of fat very slowly, and that was with 30-40g carbs a day and training.

Cheers