Hi,

I read the sticky thread at the top of (Candida Yeast & IBS) forum and followed one of the links to http://www.biblelife.org/bowel.htm

I must say, from other things I've read, I believe a LOT of this information to be untrue and misleading. Of course, I may be wrong (my other sources may be wrong). But here goes:

1) "Man is designed to not eat much carbohydrate and essentially live off meat and fat." This is utter nonsense and there is no evidence to support this. Certainly, a creationist viewpoint predicts the opposite. The theory of metabolic typing suggests that different cultures have developed different needs and today there is much variance. Some people do exceedinly well on vegetarian diets or diets with as much as 70% carb content (slow oxidisers and sympathetic dominants I believe), while some, the opposite (like Eskimos). Although you don't NEED carbohydrate to survive, it is foolish to extrapolate this to say man was designed to not live on a diet high in carbs

2) "Eating a diet low in fiber and carbs and high in fat and meat will relieve constipation." Well, I haven't tried it, but from what I've heard about many Atkins dieters, this is simply untrue. While it's true that a lot of carbs and even things like oats can mess up your digestive tract, many say the same thing about meat which is why many high-meat diets recommend lots of fibre to flush the colon.

3) "carbohydrates cause IBD. "How can this notion possibly be supported. The author gives no references. There may be a case for excessive refined carb consumption causing IBD, but such a blatant statement as "carbs cause IBD" is almost certainly fallacious.

4)" vegetarians are unhealthy." Again, many people do VERY well on vegetarian or vegan diets while some people do indeed require more meat and fat.

5) "carbohydrate consumption promotes a "flight or fight" response." This is SO not true. The opposite is often true. A high carb/insulin promoting meal promotes the OPPOSITE response, heigtening the paraympathetic system (don't you tend to feel kind of sleepy after a big, carby meal?). I imagine that, if one eats a lot of sugar or refined carbs, the consequent sugar rush and beta-endorphin release may stimulate some kind of flight or fight response (although I'm not sure), but fasting, not eating, is what promotes 'flight-or-fight'

6) "Omega 6 fatty acids are harmful." Rubbish!

7) "meat is loaded with enzymes." NO! Only if you don't cook it!!! Cooked meat requires tons of important, body-healing enzymes to digest!

8) I find it very interesting that this diet is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of all cancer-cure diets. It promotes acidifying of the blood while caner-cure diets promote alkinising. Very interesting. It also will overtax enzyme production in the long run, I believe, but the author does suggest taking enzymes so that would conterract this effect. In spite of this, the author suggest that it wards off cancer!

I think this is very interesting and perhaps a good example of metabolic typing (see the book by William Wolcott "The metabolic typing diet"). I mean, cancer has been cured in many people and good bowel function promoted using a diet that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what this webpage promotes. However, I do believe the author's claims that his diet has helped a lot of people and clearly many people DO benefit from a high fat, moderate protein, very low carb diet. That is very interesting indeed. I would appreciate any feedback on my views here since I do not want to try something that is unhealthy and the advice on this mans webpage goes contrary to just about everything I've read.

Wow, this page is full of a lot of blatant mistruths as well:

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

I mean, a lot of this stuff is just plain untrue. Its scary, really. The lies can be easily seen by how many people boost their immune systems to the point that they recover from cancer SIMPLY BY DOING THE OPPOSITE of what biblelife.org suggests. An example of metabolic typing? Maybe

I ESPECIALLY love "myth" number 11. Here they shoot themselves in the foot since it is so obvious that, in fact, one mans food IS another mans poison and some people do well on diets that kill others. Wow, I notice this all the time in whatever research I do: misinformation is the biggest killer of this century.

Man is a hunter gatherer - if animals and fish are available then they eat them, at the same time they gather in fruits, vegetables, berries, nuts and seeds to eat and store.
Grains (wheat, rye, barley etc), any animal milk or foods made with milk such as cheese, sugar etc are not part of af a natural human diet which is why so many people have problems with them

Todays diet is not natural at all!! If you can't hunt and kill it, or you can't pick it... don't eat it!! (Read - buy in the butchers and greengrocers!!!)

It's interesting, I went off my low carb dieting a few months ago (because trying to diet was making me obsess about food all the time) and I actually expected my IBS to worsen. I thought carbs were causing it.

But actually, it has gotten SO MUCH better since I stopped trying to do low carb. I've been eating quite a bit of whole grains and fruit (and a little bit of junk food now and then) and I feel better then when I was doing low carb (Paleo was my plan then).

Like I said, I didn't expect my IBS to get better going back to a mod to high carb diet but it did. Makes me think that some people do do better with more carbs (or even high carb). My moods are also more even and I just feel more relaxed in general. I had more slumps and ups and downs trying to follow a low carb plan. Honestly! I didn't expect it but I did.

Now I eat when I am hungry and I stop when I am full and I eat what I feel like at the time. I tend to eat less now and I don't obsess over food anymore.

I'm not saying that low carb doesn't work miracles for some. But for me, it was worse.

-J

P.S. I'm not veg, just not low carb. I still love and eat meat.

Well, this is only true for the first weeks of the diet, when one's body is adjusting to a new way of eating. It may also be an issue for those who rely heavily on LC replacement foods...

--nw

Actually, it's not even true for the first 2 weeks for all low carbers. Some people react to a big change in diet with the opposite problem; diarrhea.
The fact is, any time a person makes a drastic change in eating habits (going from low fiber to high fiber, going from high carb to low carb, going from high fat to low fat, etc...) constipation or diarrhea may occur for a week or two until the body adjusts to the new diet, so it's not even unique to low carbing.
Changes in bowel habits can also occur when someone is eating a food that they are sensitive to or eating more of it than usual.

Yakumo, if you have issues with the contents of the web page that you link to, how about taking it up with the owner of that page? There are links to contact them on nearly every page of that website. Otherwise, if you have scientific evidence (ie scientific studies) to back up your arguments, feel free to present them. Disagreement is fine and everyone is welcome to their opinions, but until you present documented evidence (not others' opinions) to back up your statements, they remain opinion, not fact.

Like Macrobiotics, for instance? Or Pritikin's diet?

Wyv

Didn't Pritikin himself contract Leukemia?

Ya! Then he commited suicide. Just the kind of eating plan one would want to embrace. No fat, No fun, --No Brains

Not to mention, Aveline Kushi, one of the founders of Macrobiotics in the US (and author of a book about curing cancer with Macrobiotics) died of cancer as well. I think it's possible that the strict vegan form of Macrobiotics and similar "cleansing" type diets may be useful for certain conditions in the short term, but as a lifelong WOE? I don't think so.

Wyv

I wasn't just moaning arbitrarliy, I was trying to illicit feedback from people who might know why what I had read was the exact opposite of what is said at biblelife.org (as I said at the bottom of my first post). I'm just a bit afraid to do anything that might jepordise my health (having taken bad advice from websites that claimed to know better in the past) so any advice from people who have tried that diet would be most welcome. Also, my facts are not just made up. Check out www.drkelley.com or the great book "The metabolic typing diet" by William Wolcott. Dr Kelley has cured his own cancer (and that of many others) using a largely "raw foods" diet (very different from macrobiotics) where he stresses NO MEAT (except for a tbsp of raw liver a day). However, Wolcott and Kelley both acknowledge that there is large variance amongst people and some people respond brilliantly to a diet based more on meat and fat (Kelley's own wife did very poorly on the vegetarian diet). In addition, the requirements of a person may shift several times throughout his lifetime. That's what Wolcott says anyway. What do I know. It's really quite interesting, but makes a lot of sense since people in different parts of the world would have adapted to different types of eating. Eskimos, for example, live on meat and blubber while there are some civilisations that eat largely grains. I wasn't saying that the advice on biblelife.org may not be helpful to many since clearly many have been helped following their advice, but I would like some critical comment on many of the "facts" on that website that certainly contradict many things I've read and a lot of common sense as well. For example, it seems unlikely and at least is impossible to prove that man was designed to exist in a ketogenic state or largely on meat and fat. Not that I have anything against ketosis, but it does seem that the human body is designed to run on glucose. Certainly, it would be hard for a child to develop into a big strong man without some good carbs. Also, the site seems to be run by creationists and surely the creationist thinking would be to believe that man was created vegeterian (since man didn't eat animals before the fall)... but that's another story. You have to admit that the diet suggested on that page is a LOT more strict than basic Atkins and other anti-candida diets I've seen. In addition, the requirement that a person on the diet take so many enzymes and minerals etc. is certainly proof that it is not a natural or healthy diet long term. Of course, it's not meant to be long term like Atkins is.

any information from a site called "biblelife" would garner high amounts of scepticism from me. Cheers to you, yakumo. I'm totally with you on your last post. This is a huge earth; different climates and lifestyles produce nutritional variances among cultures.

ok, it's a slow day at work, I'll bite... actually, it seems unlikely and at least impossible that early man existed on anything else but meat and fat. it was simply too hard to gather enough whatever nuts, tubers, fruits were available and in season. And unprocessed grains are actually poisonous. Lots of pre-historic sites have included a lot of animal bones showing signs of having been cut with tools, along with the human remains.

If you consider our time on the planet as a single day, the amount of time we've been consuming grains and since we started depending on organized agriculture instead of hunting and gathering is only the past 5 minutes. And highly refined carbs? probably the last 10 seconds. The human body simply hasn't had time to adapt.

there is loads of evidence that man evolved on a meat based diet. I suggest you google something along the lines of paleo diet and read what you find. I also suggest you take a look at theomniovre.com.

There is much evidence that man evolved on primarily meat and fat as Mr. Freddy mentioned above. Consider, if you will, where ice age man was gathering and eating vegetation from? Also, man's increase in protein consumption is credited with man developing a larger brain. Also, with all due respect, there is very little scientific evidence to support the metabolic typing theory.



Actually, the author give several references:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/...,793501,00.html
http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive...ting_grains.htm

Grains (specifically gluten containing grains) have been linked to IBS and other inflammatory conditions, including rheumatoid arthritis.



Only if they are getting a sufficient source of vitamin B-12 (found only in a bioavailable form in animal products) by either eating eggs and dairy or by consuming [highly processed] products that are fortified with it. Strict vegans also have be very careful about getting adequate amounts of essential fatty acids and complete proteins containing all the essential amino acids.



That sleepy feeling after a carby meal is caused the the spike and corresponding crash of blood sugars which also provokes a corresponding spike in insulin production. High levels of circulating insulin stimulate Cortisol production (a stress hormone) and eventually lead to insulin resistance.



An imbalance of Omega 3 to Omega 6 is unhealthy and most Americans get far too much Omega 6 and not nearly enough Omega 3.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

I am just wondering. Why have my IBS symptoms gotten better since I have gone off low carb? And why do I feel better and less up and down? Seriously, I want to understand it because I was all for the Paleo plan before I started have food obsession issues. And now that I eat med-high carb, I feel better (and I think I might be losing a little weight).

My father also has always eaten fairly high carb most of his life and he is one of the most healthy people I know--he gets a cold once every few years, has excellent cholesterol, low BP, and has weighed less than me since I was in high school!

What could explain this other than the idea that some people do actually do better on a higher carb plan?

-J

BTW, I am NOT a vegetarian, I still eat a lot of meat, I just also have bread, starchy veg and fruit and an odd cookie or two.