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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Apr-11-05, 17:01
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
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Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug
Nobody is arguing that machines can not work every muscle in your body, its more an arguement of having the machines constrain the motion or to be free of the constraints.



So, here is the situation. You have someone who appears to be relatively new to weightlifting, who wants to lift heavy, but has no spotter, and is clearly wise enough to realize there is some risk involved. And based on the putative superiority of free weights, your original suggestion was this:

Quote:
If you can't find a spotter use the squat rack.


You then acknowledge that he can, in fact, work all the same muscles with machines. Since I'm not aware of anyone who thinks free weights are safer than machines, it makes your quick dismissal of machines, and suggestion of free weights, given the original poster's circumstances, a rather curious one, to be as polite as I'm likely ever going to be in the face of reasoning like this.
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Apr-11-05, 22:54
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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Machines vs free weights
"the truth is usually in the middle." Charles Staley
"it's like firing a canon from a canoe." The Evil Russian - Pavel Tsatsouline
"Iron weights are the bread and butter of any aspiring hardcore lifter. You may be able to lift 75lbs on a machine, but when you try that very same exercise with free weights you would be hard pressed to lift the same weight." Ron Harris

I like free moving exercises because they are more effective for the development of strength and balance in an unstable environment. This is even greater when swiss balls are added to your training.

You decide for yourself what you want to use. For me, it will not be machines, except for maybe an occasional use of the leg press machine.
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  #18   ^
Old Tue, Apr-12-05, 05:32
dug dug is offline
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Posts: 62
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 207/188/165
BF:
Progress: 45%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
So, here is the situation. You have someone who appears to be relatively new to weightlifting, who wants to lift heavy, but has no spotter, and is clearly wise enough to realize there is some risk involved. And based on the putative superiority of free weights, your original suggestion was this:



You then acknowledge that he can, in fact, work all the same muscles with machines. Since I'm not aware of anyone who thinks free weights are safer than machines, it makes your quick dismissal of machines, and suggestion of free weights, given the original poster's circumstances, a rather curious one, to be as polite as I'm likely ever going to be in the face of reasoning like this.


Well the fact is that to be safe he should not lift heavier than form permits. Machines or not, if form can not be maintained the move should not be done. And I believe form is more important than weight. You can believe as you like I merely offer a differing point of view. Sorry that this point of view causes you to have to work hard to remain polite. No offense was meant.
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  #19   ^
Old Tue, Apr-12-05, 12:17
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug
Well the fact is that to be safe he should not lift heavier than form permits. Machines or not, if form can not be maintained the move should not be done. And I believe form is more important than weight. You can believe as you like I merely offer a differing point of view. Sorry that this point of view causes you to have to work hard to remain polite. No offense was meant.


It wasn't the point of view, my friend, but the rather obvious fact that you have offered more than one points of view in this thread that contradict themselves, yet continue to advocate a solution as though the contradiction didn't exist. Shrug...
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Apr-15-05, 18:21
briancurra briancurra is offline
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Posts: 19
 
Plan: psmf
Stats: 270/245/200 Male 5'11 inches
BF:
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I would suggest using the smith machine as already suggested. I dont have a spotter either...there are other exercises that you can do that dont require a spot necessarily...such s deadlifts. You just want to make sure to use strict form. I just using deadlifts in my routine and it has helped improve my core strength in almost all other exercises.

Using machine can be effective you just have to challenge yourself.
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