I have no idea if any of you read this any longer, but I never did get to complete my first marathon on June 4, 2005. Two weeks prior to the race (the last 18 mile training interval on a sunny Saturday), I was doing cross country trails and hit some mud on a particularly treacherous downhill. While I tried to regain my footing I ended up injuring the menescus ligament in my left knee. So, I ended up with an MRI on June 4th instead of marathon ambition. Talk about a bummer.

I was very hesistant to run again this year; as a result, I ended up gaining about fourteen pounds even though I still lifted and used a Natural Runner elliptical machine at my gym. This past December ('05) I slowly began running again. How painful! Even a mile was a chore. Talk about taking conditioning for granted last spring. However, I am now up to 5-6 miles at a 9:50 pace and plan on doing the same annual marathon again, this time, it's June 3, 2006. I've managed to cut about 7 pounds, so I'm halfway to where I used to be. Soon I'm going to introduce whole grain cereal and fruit back into my morning plans and am excited!

How have you all been?

In March of last year I tore the lateral ligaments in my ankle. In May I did the Park City marathon. In June I did a 66 mile track run. In August I did the first half of the Leadville 100 mile race. Those were my only races of last year. For the past 8 weeks I've averaged 90 miles per week, mostly on a treadmill. 11 days ago I came down with the worst case of flu I've ever had. I'm over it now but how did I manage to gain weight when I was too sick to eat???????

Kaypeeoh, I completely relate. I can't believe that by doing Induction again without exercise my weight actually escalated. I never changed my eating habits, just my level of physical activity. I find myself becoming obsessed with nutrition, the scale, and running. Yesterday I did a six mile cross country course, and I just felt so sick. Totally zapped of energy, and my knee was beginning to bother me by mile 4. I know I need to introduce some carbs into my diet while running, but I'm so paranoid that I'll gain weight I run on 20 carbs or less per day. I used to do this FREQUENTLY while training last year, and I was fine. I could do about 10 miles on ultra low carb without bonking. After that, I'd try some Hammergel or diluted Gatorade. Now, I panic at the mere thought of Hammergel or carbs from Gatorade.

Maybe I will feel better once I get back down to my performance weight of 155 like last spring. I'm also big into weight training, so I realize that as my scale fluxuates it's because of muscle gains and reshaping my legs with running. I've only been back at it since December, so I guess I shouldn't expect to have the endurance and performance of last year. I'm also only trying to improve the recommended 10% per week, but it's so hard not to overtrain right now when I know how I USED to run and how I USED to look.

I, too, had the flu this winter and GAINED four pounds. I barely ate! I consulted my physician (who also happens to be my mother) and her response was that our body was merely adjusting to fighting off the sickness. As your white blood cells attempt to rid your body of the sickness, you will also retain water as a by-product. If you weight train, your muscles also tend to hold water the first month.

Nice to hear from you!

I might be completely out of line here since I am not a marathoner, the only thing I have done which may be a LITTLE similar is hiking at a fast/intense pace up mountains for the better part of a day, and playing ultimate frisbee (sprint sprint sprint) for several hours at a time. The frisbee is not similar in terms of the activity, but just that it has to be sustained for several hours at a time.

After several years of low carbing on and off I found that my body performed best under low carb conditions. For example, on one of our hiking trips I decided to eat a nice big breakfast which included carbs and found the hiking very difficult, burning muscles, out of breath etc etc. Plus I got hungry throughout the day. When I ate only some coffee with coconut oil in it for breakfast I was on fire, I actually shocked my husband - no fatigue, no wall hitting, no burning muscles I felt like a machine. Throughout the day I continued the theme and only ate a few dried sausages to maintain this energy. I think that once your body is able to use it's own fat readily it is a much more stable and sustainable source of fuel. Oh the frisbee thing - I used to try eating carbs on frisbee days thinking I would need it for all of the high energy sprints. Nope. I'd run out of steam. I DO however, have to be in good shape and be used to training on low carbs in order to do this, I can't just begin playing sports on 20-40 carbs after months of eating whatever I feel like and expect to perform at my personal best.

That being said - I have NO experience marathoning and am by no means a top level athlete or anything, so I might be way out of line here...I just thought I'd offer my experience.

I just found this thread. I am not a marathoner, but have done a half and am contemplating training for another half this spring. When I was training last year I found out by accident that my long run goes much better of I had some extra carbs the night before. I makes sure they are whole grain, healthy carbs. I can do short runs on my usual, low carb regime.
When I increase my running I find it difficult to lose weight, my appetite increases considerably. I need to get down to goal before I run another half though, I can really feel the extra weight on my butt and thighs by mile ten.

I've always had to increase my carbs when running. I generally did so through things that Atkins would absolutely lose his mind over - potatoes and bananas. I find I crave potassium when I get into higher mileage

I definitely do bonk if carbs are too low

I tried and tried for months on end to do tennis training on very low carb, but it never got easy. My shots are more powerful, but forget the sprints. So now I'm experimenting with TKD and how many carbs I need prior to training. So far I'm scared to go above a banana, but some days it doesn't seem to be enough.

Then again, there are some days when I'm feeling energetic that I can get away without any carbs and just go on meat/fat. This is usually after a few days break from training.

I'm sure if I ate 2 bananas I'd do better, but somehow that would feel too much, especially with the eggs/butter/cream/tea breakfast I have.

Sorry, I know that's not about running.

Oh, I did find the other day I went swimming and haven't been for several months. I broke my previous record for 2K and didn't feel in the least bit tired afterwards. I actually felt I was going SLOWER than usual, but it turns out I was going faster. This was on no carbs (well, very very few I think).

"Oh, I did find the other day I went swimming and haven't been for several months. I broke my previous record for 2K and didn't feel in the least bit tired afterwards. I actually felt I was going SLOWER than usual, but it turns out I was going faster. This was on no carbs (well, very very few I think)."

I'm finding that low carb is great for endurance. Once your body is trained to burn only fat, even a lean person has an almost limitless supply of energy. I have never been much of a runner. I have dabbled with jogging a few times in the past, but never stuck with it. I have short legs and have always had a stocky build...just not built good for running. Anyways, about 3 months ago I took up running on the treadmill, slowly building my speed and endurance. Well, just a couple of weeks ago I did a 10 mile run and was surprised at how easy it was for me.(my usual workout is to do about a 3 mile run). Now, my hips and knees were getting a bit sore from the constant pounding(perhaps I should get some better shoes or take up cycling instead, LOL), but energy was not a problem. My heart rate was 150, which for me puts me at 85% maximum HR. I kept this pace for well over an hour and a half. By the way, the previous 2 days I had NO carbs, except for the trace amounts that occur in eggs and cheese.

There's a guy named Klein here who has been talking about the types of fat you consume and physical performance in exercise, hard exercise.. not walking at high intensity for 60 mins. He said that lard and tallow, for example, fuel your muscles much better than egg, milkfat etc. This might not be any help but I thought I'd throw it in here just in case.

Yeah -

I really want to try this one but I can't find a good source of lard here. I might try the tallow and see. I definitely have LESS concentration when I add back in carbs before my lesson - BUT I run around a bit more.

I'm off to buy some tallow then. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll be cooking egg yolks in tallow for breakfast tomorrow, and NO banana. I'm convinced there must be an answer to this dilemma!

there is no way in hell you can train sucessfully (to do well) for a marathon and be a low carber--I've been a runner all my life. If you must lower carbs, then 'carb up' a few days before your big runs or race--the body is made to function on glycogen during exercise, especially long runs.

the better trained your muscles become the less they depend on glycogen during bouts of excercise and the more the become dependendent upon intermuscular fat, which increases with endurance and strength.

I did a 7-mile run this morning on Meat/Eggs and 0 carbs for the last couple weeks. No carb-loading, no Hammergel, nothing. My carb level is less than 5 per day. I'm stoked about this, because I'm back to the mileage I was doing pre-Atkins in May. I may sign up for an August half if I can keep it up. It appears that no-carb is working great for me.

Yesterday I did 45 minutes on the mill at 6 mph 1.5% incline holding two 8# dumbbells. I think this is helping my upper body in strengthening and keeping me relaxed during my outdoor runs, so I'll keep doing this workout, too.

I can run 7 miles without having any carbs. I do it every day. But I can't run 30 miles without carbs. I've read over and over that you are never burning exclusively fat. A small amount of carb is needed as a primer. For 30 mile runs I've tried, with the idea that gluconeogenesis is producing carbohydrate. But apparently I don't produce enough and consequently I'm forced to walk once I've run out of carbs.

Yeah, I don't know what accounts for the increase in mileage so quickly in the last week. Also, I don't take off on a run without a Hammergel, but haven't needed it yet. Doing weekly long runs will probably change that. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I'm not nearly as fit as you, so it wouldn't surprise me if carbs enter the picture here soon.

Low carb seems to be one of those "lost" areas where it's just not addressed by the experts and nobody really knows how to deal with endurance sports. It just seems to be hit-and-miss for everybody, trying to figure out what works. That's frustrating.

I'm going to try for 9 miles on Sunday - I'll bring two Hammergels!