Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Food Combining
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 11:23
suelarocco suelarocco is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/136/125
BF:
Progress: 27%
Default Question about leaving Atkins and doing Montignac

I was on Atkins, but decided to start with Montignac Method. I just received the book from Montignac "Eat & Lose Weight for Good". It tends to be a little confusing. Since I'm used to the Atikins way of eating I'm trying to go over to Montignac and I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly. I have eggs in the morning for breakfast, lunch usually tuna with celery and mayo or chicken with celery and mayo making it into a salad. Then dinner some kind of meat with a vegetable or salad. This seems to be the same way I was eating on Atkins. Am I doing Phase 1 correctly? Or am I missing something. I haven't finished reading the whole book yet, but just what I have read it seems that what I'm eating is ok. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the glycaemic index!

Any advice one can give will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sue
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 12:48
CalicoCat's Avatar
CalicoCat CalicoCat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,363
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 168/163/128 Female 5'1.5''
BF:44%/44%/22-28%
Progress: 13%
Location: Canada, Montréal
Default

Hi Sue,

With Montignac, eggs in the morning are only once a week. The morning is time to have, muesli, bread, fruits, milk and yoghurt. Milk and yoghurt must be 0% fat, bread must fit Montignac’s standards. Try Spangs Favorite Museli (a couples of links below)you will love it! Your other meals look fine with me. You can have whole wheat pasta, rice or barley, 3 meals a week. The real headache is to buy the right kind (never the white stuff).

Welcome aboard!

CalicoCat
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 13:04
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

Also remember that in phase 1 - even though bread is allowed it is still a limited item - and it should be restricted to the morning.

Montignac also prefers the method of eating a bigger mid-day meal and a smaller evening meal.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 14:05
Spang Spang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: New Glucose Revolution (ex Montignacer!)
Stats: 155/125/120
BF:
Progress: 86%
Default wow!

My muesli recipe is beoming urban legend! I must thank the New Glucose Revolution book for that, though

Welcome to Montignac, yes - it is slightly confusing, and it will take you a little while to figure out what works for you. I blame it on a bad translations from the native French, not just in the actual text, but also in the types of food - they tend to be very European-centric in the version I have, and a lot of my American friends have no idea what foods he is talking about!

To clarify the Gylcemic Index principles, I always refer people to http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm

Another useful resource would be the New Glucose Revolution book - which helps to clear some of the mud away! This is the basis of the info that is on the mendosa site above.

In my history with Montiganc, I spent about 4 months or so on Phase 1 - when I cut out bread, most rice, most pasta, any refined foods, and any added sugars. I cooked mainly the Montiganc recipes

Then I gradually re introduced the higher GI, but low GL (something Montiganc only briefly touches on) foods.

Hope this helps
Spang
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 15:36
suelarocco suelarocco is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/136/125
BF:
Progress: 27%
Default

Thank you all for you quick responses and good information. I guess I'll muddle through all this and get to a good understanding eventually. I think from being on Atkins I'm afraid
of any carbs at all, so I have to re-think and start looking at the
Gylcemic Index and go to the mendosa site for help as well.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 16:38
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default I understand your fear - but....its ok

Hi Sue

I know how scary it is to go from Atkins to a plan much higher in carbs the thing to remember is that its all GOOD CARBS - its not like you are going to have a white bread and jam sandwich, or off to MacDonalds for Big Mac and SuperSize Fries - with a fake milk milkshake - Big Difference. I find on Montignac my fibre intake is so high that right away you are reducing your ECC and the carb intake is not that high anyway - yes compared to Atkins it is especially if you are looking at induction level carbs. However compared to the average NorthAmerican diet it is still low carb - I totall mine up and seem to go between 80 and 140 carbs per day not at all high!!!

Also every day you will understand the plan a litte better, a lot of it is common sense
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 16:54
suelarocco suelarocco is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/136/125
BF:
Progress: 27%
Default

What about beans? Kidney, refried or pinto beans, are they acceptable food to eat during phase 1 or are they too high in carbs?
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 17:11
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

Hi Sue

I needed to check this out for someone else, thanks for reminding me
Kidney beans are fine - for a 2/3 cup serving

23 on the GI
Glucose Load of 6



Beans Beans The Musical Fruit
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 00:22
Spang Spang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: New Glucose Revolution (ex Montignacer!)
Stats: 155/125/120
BF:
Progress: 86%
Default Hi Sue

I know it is a bit daunting as it is a little confusing

Feel free to ask any questions - there are a few of us die hard Montigancers here that post regularly.

Re Pinto beans GI about 40, GL of about 10 - probably best to wait until Phase 2 Montiganc, or eat in extreme moderation with lots of lower GI food.

As far as refried beans are concerned - personally I'd stay well away - far too much saturated fat in there. However, I can't find the stats for them anywhere.

Like Koko says - Montignac isn't a carb frenzy, but it isn't super restrictive either. You can eat your heart's content on the RIGHT carbs

The trick is finding out what the right carbs are!

Montiganc is more about eating a balanced diet that eliminates the requirement to take daily dietary suppliments - as you should be getting all you need naturally - except for Brewer's Yeast - a little bit of that on my favorite muesli won't hurt

Spang
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 09:17
eva123's Avatar
eva123 eva123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 249
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 163.2/156.6/143.3
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Default

Thanks for the kidney beans Sue!!

I believe that most people here moved from Atkins to Montignac or Sugar Busters which introduce many more carbs, and, as mentioned above (below..??), is a way of getting a more balanced way of eating.

I think Atkins allows you to understand certain things and you can only arrive here much more educated about how your body works....

Not many people on this Forum but you guys are definitely full of wisdom. I wish to say that your input is really helpful. Thanks

Like you said, it is many more carbs, especially for someone like me who always maintained an Induction level, never really more than 20...

Quote:
With Montignac, eggs in the morning are only once a week. The morning is time to have, muesli, bread, fruits, milk and yoghurt


Interestingly, I was always having eggs on Atkins. Is this not advised on Montignac because of the proteins?

The other funny thing, is I agree more with the idea that lunch should be your bigger meal. Atkins wanted emphasis on your evening meal.

Lastly, please excuse me but I won't be a word for word follower of Montignac. I will follow the principle but it will move between Montignac and Sugar Busters. Please, don't ban me from the forum..

Ciao
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 13:51
Spang Spang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: New Glucose Revolution (ex Montignacer!)
Stats: 155/125/120
BF:
Progress: 86%
Default

Ahhhhh Eva...

We don't worry about you not following Montignac to the letter! I'm not sure if anyone here does I certainly don't!

You are more than welcome to join in our rants!

As for eggs in the am... yikes - I have to brush up on my "strict Montignac rules"... I've forgotten - but it is probably the difference between lipid/protein and the "other type" recommendations.

Spang
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 14:41
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default Mr Montignac Please Come Here!!!

I want that man to make a personal appearance here and straighten things out!!!! There's way too much confusion.

I registered at his site and got the meal plans, I figured If I paid for 1 month it would be worth it to see what the official plan would be and that it might clarify some issues that were foggy....forget it I am more confused than ever.

I can't remember anything in the book about limiting eggs, I think that comes from the website. I had to return the book to the library(no big loss ) but I do remember that the book discourages eating bread on the weight loss phase of the diet. The meal plan I paid to get has bread for several breakfasts in the week. The Sunday breakfast on week 3 even has bread AND butter - where the heck does that come from??? that is a definite no no combination. week 3 is still a weight loss phase.

I still love it though
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 15:18
suelarocco suelarocco is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 140/136/125
BF:
Progress: 27%
Default

Still finding the GI and GL a little confusing. When you say you should have low GI does that automatically bring the GL lower. What do you look for low GI or low GL or does it go hand and hand. I hope I'm not confusing things, but I'm really trying to figure this out.

As for beans I do like to make my own refried without all the fat. All I do is take pinto beans add flavoring and cook really long than mash them with some cheese. But I guess I'll wait until I'm in Phase II.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 15:34
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default I might confuse you more

Each food has a GI and a GL does that help - or did you already know? Usually a food with a low GI has a low GL but there are some exceptions - don't ask me what!!!! The GL of a food with a high GI/GL can be lowered by pairing it with a food with a much lower GL but it is advisable to wait until you are in phase 2 to do this.

I looked again at the listings for beans, the GI's are so varied even for the same kind of bean!!!! I would think even if you left the fat out that they might be risky as you say you cook them for a really long time. Generally long cooking raises the GI/GL of a food as it makes the sugars more easily accessible to the blood (that is just my non-technical explanation - don't bet any money on it)
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, Mar-26-03, 18:19
Spang Spang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: New Glucose Revolution (ex Montignacer!)
Stats: 155/125/120
BF:
Progress: 86%
Default

Ok - a little GI / GL clarification

Glycemic Index is the one that Montiganc says should be under 30 for Low GI and what you should limit yourself to in Phase 1.

In phase 2, it raises to about 50 as acceptable GI.

GI is the measure of the blood glucose (and therefore insulin response) level raise compared to the same amount of carbs in pure glucose GI = 100 (normally). Sometimes you will get different quotes for GI as:-

a) some people measure GI not comparative to pure glucose - I've seen some using white bread as a comparison. This will result in a different GI value

b) the blood glucose response is different from person to person, and sometimes different if different readings are taken from the same person. To limit these differences, a more reliable GI is an average of many readings (see the lists in New Glucose Revolution or on the Mendosa site as examples).

This is why you have to find out what works for you. You may just happen to be super sensitive to a food that is considered "ok" as it is Low GI - but you might just happen to process things a little differently.

GI measures the QUALITY of foods, not the quantity of carbs. A GI value tells you only how rapidly a particular carbohydrate turns into sugar. It doesn't tell you how much of that carbohydrate is in a serving of a particular food.

This is the basis of the Montignac Method.

However - Gylcemic Load is not just how much the blood glucose levels change, but also how much of the carb there is in an average serving. It is calculated thus:-
GI of a food x its carbohydrate content in grams = GL

A Low GL is considered to be about 10, a medium one of about 20, a high one of about 30.

still with me?

A GREAT food for weight loss on this principle would be low GI and low GL.

From Mendosa site:-
Quote:
The glycemic load (GL) is a relatively new way to assess the impact of carbohydrate consumption that takes the glycemic index into account, but gives a fuller picture than does glycemic index alone. A GI value tells you only how rapidly a particular carbohydrate turns into sugar. It doesn’t tell you how much of that carbohydrate is in a serving of a particular food. You need to know both things to understand a food’s effect on blood sugar. That is where glycemic load comes in. The carbohydrate in watermelon, for example, has a high GI. But there isn’t a lot of it, so watermelon’s glycemic load is relatively low. A GL of 20 or more is high, a GL of 11 to 19 inclusive is medium, and a GL of 10 or less is low.

Foods that have a low GI invariably have a low GL, while foods with an intermediate or high GI range from very low to very high GL. Therefore, you can reduce the GL of your diet by limiting foods that have both a high GI and a high carbohydrate content.



When I started Montignac, I steered VERY clear of watermelon.
Its glycemic index is pretty high, about 72. According to the calculations by the people at the University of Sydney's Human Nutrition Unit, in a serving of 120 grams it has 6 grams of available carbohydrate per serving, so its glycemic load is pretty low, 72/100*6=4.32, rounded to 4. which is very low.

I hope this all makes some sense and isn't confusing you further. The good old mendosa site has very clear explanations of both GI and GL - along with about 750 foods measured (most have averages) for GI and GL.

I'll look into the egg thing when I get home and can refer to MM book.

As far as the refried beans goes - I'd still limit it, maybe to phase 2. Cooking the beans for a long time increases the gelatinzation - the process where carbs are broken down to be more digestible - but worse for you GI and GL wise. NGR has a good explanation of this too - will try and dig it out when I get home again!

Sorry for the long reply
Spang
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.