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  #61   ^
Old Tue, Sep-16-03, 16:48
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modizzle
All those idiots who died from ephedrine deserved to die. They should've went by the recommended dosage.


That's a pretty harsh statement. I'd also like to add that if you're sensitive to ephedrine even "recommended dosages" can cause big problems. How do you know if you're sensitive to it or not? You don't...until you take it.
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  #62   ^
Old Tue, Sep-16-03, 20:27
Azraelle's Avatar
Azraelle Azraelle is offline
Midas in reverse
Posts: 744
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 260/231/165 Male 75 inches
BF:~31%/~26%/<17%
Progress: 31%
Location: Southern Utah
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Quote:
I'd also like to add that if you're sensitive to ephedrine even "recommended dosages" can cause big problems. How do you know if you're sensitive to it or not? You don't...until you take it.


The same can be said for aspirin, penicillin, or any other drug or food! Ephedrine is no more safe, and no less safe either, than any other drugs that can kill in high doses (aspirin, alcohol, cimetidine, phenylpropanolamine...). None of them are on prescription. Why is there such a penchant in this country for avoiding the responsibility of looking out for ourselves? Do we really need laws to protect us from our own stupidity? (Mandatory helmet and seatbelt laws, steroids, yada, yada, 200+ stickers on ladders these days reminding the stupid consumer not to use ladders while intoxicated, etc.) Making ephedrine illegal w/o a prescription accomplishes nothing positive--after all, Phen/Fen was only available on prescription--and that didn't protect the consumer at all, now did it??
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  #63   ^
Old Fri, Sep-19-03, 20:23
korry1977's Avatar
korry1977 korry1977 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,526
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 270/265/170 Male 68 inches
BF:43%/35%/10%
Progress: 5%
Location: Houston, TX
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Azraelle:

You make an excellent point on personal responsibility. If this issue is not discussed on a wider level, some medical practioners may as well just pack up their bags and get into another type of business due to skyrocketing malpractice insurance. Also, think about our civil courts, in any case (for example fat kids vs McDonald's, I know the judge threw it out, but what if the kids won) would be flooded, and overwhelmed with ligitation, and possibly fraudelent lawsuits.

Its time for people not to believe everything on the news for granted (even thinking its reliable...) and for people to develop some analytical skills and reasoning ability...

JMHO,
Korry
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  #64   ^
Old Sat, Sep-27-03, 17:44
fourkids's Avatar
fourkids fourkids is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,501
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 328/237.4/182 Female 67 inches
BF:50+%/34%/20%
Progress: 62%
Location: Canada
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This has been interesting to read- from Mike to everyone else. Thanks Mike, and everyone else, for a very interesting debate. It reminds me that I need to do more researc, and my OWN research!
Thanks,
Kathy
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  #65   ^
Old Sat, Sep-27-03, 17:57
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
for example fat kids vs McDonald's, I know the judge threw it out, but what if the kids won


Actually, while the judge threw out the first case, he left the door open for them reformulating their case and presenting it again later or refiling for a new case and while I can't remember where I read it, I do remember reading that they lawyers were working on doing just that.
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  #66   ^
Old Sat, Oct-04-03, 16:20
jeanne48's Avatar
jeanne48 jeanne48 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Redbook Magazine
Stats: 166/144/140 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: NC
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Mikeroger,
Going back in time to your statement of low carb, low fat, high protein diet is more effective. I'm living proof that low fat with a low carb diet does not work--my HDLs took a nosedive on such a diet. True, the LDLs and the triglycerides did too. However I was exercising more with that diet and the higher HDLs are supposed to be heart protective.

Jeanne48
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  #67   ^
Old Fri, Oct-10-03, 20:57
hotrod's Avatar
hotrod hotrod is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 33
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 316/304/200 Male 76
BF:better/every/day
Progress: 10%
Location: ohio
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Ephedrine if abused can be a problem..but the main reason the government wants it off the shelf is because it can be used to make meth.

I known people who would take 15 times the recomended dosage at one time of ephedrine...It is becuase the used it as speed and built up a tolorance to it. Personally I found caffine to be a better stimulant to ephedrine. Back when I use to have to work 16 hour shifts 7 days a week

I have read some scientific studys on Ephedrine/Caffine/asprin ("ECA stack" ) and fat loss. The study show more fat loss and less muscle loss than not using the stack. I drink lots of caffine and take a asprin a day so I guess I got two thrids of the stack. Do a search on ECA stack for more information. I dont do it becuase I have slightly high blood pressure. I'm not recomending it for anyone but if any one is intersested do a web search on ECA stack and decide for yourselfs. I belive that everyone should have the right to chose what they put in their bodies.
Rod
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  #68   ^
Old Mon, Oct-13-03, 16:20
DerBlumers's Avatar
DerBlumers DerBlumers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: Whatever works
Stats: 300.5/200/135 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: The Beaver State
Angry I Guess I Must Be An Idiot

Ummmm...excu-u-u-use me for living, Modizzle.....I'm one of those who tasted a SAMPLE of a product at a county fair that just happened to contain ephedrine....and it almost KILLED me!! Recommended dosage? What's that? For me...it was ZERO!!! And according to you, I'm an idiot who deserved to die, simply because I "tasted" the product.

I admit I was a bit hasty in the past....telling others that ephedrine should be banned...but, actually, it has been pointed out to me that it has a valid use for many people...and quite notably people who have ADD and ADHD, for whom ephedrine can be a cheaper alternative to more expensive prescription drugs for treatment of hyperactivity. I will understand if it gets taken off the market completely, but I now believe that it should NOT be. However, it should be monitored carefully....because too many people are way too sensitive, and some people who even use it for the first time can react violently. Believe me....I KNOW.....
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Oct-23-03, 14:47
thin2win thin2win is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: ATKINS
Stats: 167/143/135 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Thumbs down ephedrine kills

Last time I checked.... ephedrine kills. I think anyone who takes it is an idiot and asking for trouble
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  #70   ^
Old Fri, Nov-07-03, 09:56
Hellistile's Avatar
Hellistile Hellistile is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,540
 
Plan: Animal-based/IF
Stats: 252/215.6/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Vancouver Island
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Getting back to the original thread started by mikeroger, I would like to state that I am low-carbing for my health only. I don't care if my body is bulging with well-defined muscles or if I ever get into a swimsuit again. I do not need to lose a pound a day. I NEED to REGAIN MY HEALTH. Low-carbing is not a cosmetic and it is not a race. Once you reach my age and develop serious illnesses, fast weight loss is irrelevent.

I average a 2 pound loss per month. I eat plenty of meat, lot's of fat, nuts, fruits and vegetables. I am never hungry, never tempted (yes there are high carb foods in the house for my 6', 200 pound baby) nor do I count calories or carbs EVER. I do not feel restricted by the NeanderThin Plan. However, eating this way has made me HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY, and STRONGER STRONGER STRONGER than I have felt in decades. Most of my illnesses have disappeared or been alleviated.

Oh and WALKEN1, thanks for quoting the death by eating lean meats such as rabbits scenario out of context. The lean meat story refers to death by starvation by eating lean meat only and excluding "FAT" not "Carbohydrate" from the diet. Hunter gatherers who ate lean meat only would eventually die if they could not get dietary FAT. Carbohydrates were of no real consequence for the hunter gatherer as they did not consider them necessary for survival. Fat was of prime importance not protein.

Time for some people to do their research.
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