Pete...

The approach in maintainance (as you are in) is a bit different than it is when you are in the ongoing weight loss phase for Atkins. In the maintainace phase, many people find that they can add whole grains back into their diets in moderation along with more fruits and the occasional higher carb treat.
I'm a bit confused since your profile indicates that you're following the Bernstein plan. Is that the Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution diet or the other Bernstein plan?
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution is very much like the Atkins approach with the exception being that you never go above 30 grams of carb per day and are not allowed fruit or grains at all. He also highly advocates weight resistance training as a means to control blood sugars along with carb restriction.
As for enjoying higher carb foods. I used to enjoy them quite a bit too...until I started getting nasty blood sugar spikes whenever I ate them. I don't enjoy that at all.
BTW...I wasn't assuming that you didn't understand the impact of carbs in the form of rice, pasta, bread and potatoes. I just wanted to clarify for anyone else reading this thread that might think, "Aha! All I have to do is stay away from junk food and I'm fine!".

I hear that you don't have the "magic" from atkins..but what I fail to understand is how do you know??
I mean. alright..what your doing is working for you.. at least for this point. But saying the Atkins wouldn't have "magic" for you. ..is rather a strange statement.. from someone that really hasn't seemed to get what this is all about.
Please understand that I am not doing atkins.. but I suppose the one thing I find most irritating, I guess because I have bothered to read the books and the science behind it.. is why so many people make so many assumptions about what it is.
I suppose I didn't understand either that this forum was a place for "dr" of whatever to coming hawking his wares. I guess if you want to join such a person's band wagon.. hop on it.. we all wish you success.
But this man .. hawking his wares..is not a different answer. Its counting. its driving yourself to drink worrying about numbers!
Sorry.. I have better things to do in my life than count all the bites, calories ect. They didn't USED to do this. The man is also proven incorrect but parroting what he has read before from someone else that refused to understand the Atkins plan, is that this is NOT a low calorie diet. Anyone of us that spends time at fitday gets that idea really quickly. HIS is the low calorie..lets see how much we can starve you and ruin your hormonal system and metobolism while I am at it. No thanks.
Knowing what atkins is.. I also wonder about the "failures".. I mean. KNOWING and understanding how it works.. I wonder what they were doing.
And. .if this doesn't work.. having been down the road of less calories and ect.. and knowing what that is.. Ie" a set up for failure" ... been there and done that.. you really aren't very new.. your the same old same old establishment blather...

Poofie...

That can be an unfortunate side effect of having to count calories (and sometimes even carbs, although one is definetly a bit easier than the other). It can lead to an unhealthy obsession, especially if there is little room for error if it's going to work as there seems to be with Dr. Ellis' plan. For me, if I'm eating low carb veggies, it's difficult to go over the 30 gram a day mark because I get full long before I reach that mark, especially with the meat and fats with it.
Something else about fats...for most people they are self-limiting; you can only eat so much of them before you start to feel uncomfortable...even a bit nauseated (if you don't believe me, try eating a stick of butter or a cup of mayonnaise all by itself sometime). Carbs don't have that effect until you have eaten WAY past the amount that would be considered healthy for anyone.
I've never seen anyone actually succeed in eating an entire stick of butter. I have, however, seen someone succeed in eating an entire box of doughnuts.
I'm not sure what anyone means by the "magic" of Atkins. There's really no magic to it at all. It's biochemisty, not Alchemy.

Thanks seyont. I knew he was up to something behind the Emerald Curtain. Since he's a bodybuilder, he's using all the tricks of the trade. Had to look up DIM and see what it was.

What is DIM?

Diindolyl methane is a dietary indole found in cruciferous vegetables. DIM occurs naturally within the cruciferous vegetable plant after crushing or chewing. Plant enzymes produce DIM form precursors called glucosinolates.
How is DIM important in Men's Health?
In men, diminished estrogen metabolism and estrogen accumulation are central problems associated with aging. DIM strongly promotes its own metabolism and in doing so increases a more active and beneficial metabolism of estrogen. This estrogen metabolism is better because it converts estradiol health promoting 2-hydoxy metabolites. These metabolites help free testosterone from its binding protein for greater testosterone activity and can reduce testosterone and estrogen stimulation of the prostate gland. Together with a healthy diet and exercise, the metabolic shift from DIM results in a "younger" balance of testosterone to estrogen. DIM supplementation is compatible with natural testosterone replacement. DIM works very well for maintaining and increasing healthy testosterone levels when combined with anabolic prohormones without the increased estradiol side-effects. Such prohormones include: 19-norandrostenediol, 19-norandrostenedione, 5-androstenediol and 4-androstenediol.

Not only does he use DIM, he also uses ephedra. Which means he's stacking (ECA). His so called Laws of Thermodynamics. Using HGH (Human Growth Hormone) also helps you lose weight along with green tea.

He should come out and say that he's on a CKD diet.
He comes close in his interview; "I had to devise sophisticated strategies to overcome the body's increase in metabolic efficiency. You may discover that your goal to become lean is not worth the price you have to pay to achieve it. I detail all of this in two chapters on Metabolic Adaptations in Ultimate Diet Secrets."

A nice site on Metabolic Diets:
http://www.metabolicdiet.com/

L8'er Dude... You stand on the shoulders of giants and not admit it. You did it all yourself!

Actually his book (from what I can gather from his description) reminded me a lot of Trainerdan new book. Except without the hype and without trying to demolish Atkins.

I'm always suspicious of people who try to hitch a ride on the let's bash <insert method here> wagon. They sound like they are trying to overcompensate for something.

If you want to spend your money, buy TrainerDan book instead.

Where can one get information about TrainerDan's book?

Sheldon

Original thread, and readers' reviews:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...&threadid=44347

Wa'il

Any mention of the Dr. Bernstein plan that I was on has actually been banished from this group. But since you've asked, it was a low fat, low carb, low calorie....heck it was actually the boot camp of all diets where I lost 56 lbs. in 3 months. It was a supervised diet with regular check-ups that is popular with some people and not with others. On maintenance, I have followed a relative low carb diet and it has worked quite well. I have to excercise as well.

I suppose my reluctance to believe the "magic" of Atkins is that I was so successful doing something else that seems more conventional. To each his own.

I think we all must know you can lose wt. any number of ways, low fat included.

But, who wants to do that?

Anyway, my big problem with this Ellis guy, aside from his overblown style, is his claim that Atkins style diets all stop working at some point. I think he is taking the fact that most people experience a slow down after a big loss on induction, and exaggerating it. Sure, the wt. loss slows down, but from what I can tell, those who stick with it go on to lose the wt. they want to lose, and the great news is that they don't seem to need any extreme calorie counting, drug taking, hunger enduring nonsense!

And apparently, he is doing this not from a scientific point of view, but just for the sole purpose of selling his book. He may be sincere, but he is extremely sloppy with the science and pseudo-science he bazookas in all directions across the landscape.

So far, I haven't seen any evidence supporting this extraordinary claim, and I see loads of evidence to the contrary on this forum.

Well, Dr., what do you say? Can you back up position with some substance?

I'm sure the methods in Dr Ellis' book will work for those who are willing to be that detailed and particular on his plan. Quite frankly, though, I dont *want* to have to pay that much attention to diet and exercise anymore. I refuse to go to a gym. I want to be able to make quick, simple, often last-minute decisions about what I eat and when I'll be active, because I actually have a *life.* That's why I'm sticking to (moderately) low-carb.

On some issues, it's clear that we all just have to agree to disagree. The one opinion of mine that probably can't be changed is that I'm not willing to accept that it all comes down to thermodynamics and calories. Perhaps if I were a car as Wa'il suggested, yes, but that's hardly the case. When my raging PMS makes me want to rob a convenience store for a Snickers bar... what does thermodynamics have to do with that? What about when my seasonal depression kicks in around November, and for six months, all I want to do is sleep and eat box after box of Kraft Dinner? Calories may be the rule of how much fat I'll end up with, but my brain chemistry and hormones, unfortunately, have a *lot* to say about how many calories I'll take in.

Dr Ellis said: "In normal healthy people at an average bodyweight there is no such thing as a SLOW or FAST metabolism." Great: so those rules apply to normal, healthy people. But I look around this forum and I see a lot of people with conditions like PCOS, hypothyroidism, diabetes, insulin resistance, and depression. I see people on birth control and anti-depressants who suddenly start gaining weight like crazy. I see chronic yo-yo dieters, over-eaters, bulimics and anorexics who are trying to get their bodies back to normal. Calories and thermodynamics theory is nice until you throw one of the above monkey wrenches into the picture.

I dunno... perhaps I haven't explained my point too well here, but if there was a birth control pill for men, or male hormonal cycles, Dr Ellis would know what I mean. I, too, used to have a strictly-calories mindset until I went on, then off, the pill; then later on, then off, depo-provera. *shrug*

How true Kristine, that certain conditions will affect dieting so much... and how fortunate that we all have found a way of eating that is so beneficial... and even tho, there are different LC plans... the premise is the same... low carbs... even tho the amount may differ, this w/o/e is TREMENDOUSLY lower than what the "average" person eats.





EXACTLY Kristine... men are truly clueless when it comes to knowing about the female hormonal changes... they have that testosterone, which runs all the time.... as we females well know ... Hey! I am not bashing men here... Kristine made a very valid point, not only with what I quoted, but with her whole post.


Poofie... I agree with you,... we know about those low cal diets, and how much havoc they can wreak on one's system... WHY count calories and lower calories, when this is already working?

Many others on here made very good points... I am not into the chemical aspects of why this works or that works... yes it will affect things... but at this point in time, I will read about it, just not incorporate it into my w/o/l.

How many times have we told people to increase their carb level, especially when they seem to be stalled out? I think that retreating to 0 carb, or less than 20 could increase the stall, but moving up to 30 could end it. It seems that whatever our body is missing it tries to horde. Don't drink enough water...it gets retained. Don't eat enough fat...it doesn't burn off as efficiently. Maybe it's the same for carbs, if we don't get the necessary ones to keep the body going, the body's processes slow down creating a stall while the body manufactures glucose from protein.

I believe that the recommendation by Dr. Atkins to drop carb levels after induction to get over a stall or plateau may be incorrect.

Beth

Beth, I am sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with you on that one... if dropping the carb levels to near 0 is so detrimental to weight loss,causing stalls... then how do you explain the success of Stillman's diet... which is primarily carnivorous, advocating as few of carbs AND fat, as possible? Stillman Diet (click here) I have done the Stillman diet, and lost weight rather rapidly, 26 lbs. in 4 wks., and I was smaller to begin with, than I am now, that's an understatement! If I only weighed now,what I started with then, I would not even be on a diet now!!! And that is getting as FEW carbs AND fat as possible! Even now losing on Atkins induction, I started Sept. 20th, in the first week I lost 14#, (haven't weighed myself since then), but have been taking measurements... and as of this morning, I have lost 34.50 inches! Now I know I am not eating even close to 20 grams of carbs per day... and my fat intake is not high as some I have seen... I would say that the way I am doing this plan is working for me... others' results may be different,but this is proof for me that this works for me... today however I tweak my plan, and make it into a combination Stillman & Atkins plan, so am calling it my SuManKins plan!

The idea that we need a certain amount of carbs and will horde them if we don't get them is belied by the experience in 1928 of Vilhjalmur Steffannson, the American anthropologist who, along with a colleage, went a full year eating nothing but meat while under medical supervision at Bellevue Hospital in New York. At the end of the year, he had lost eight pounds and was in fine health. He did not even have scurvy, which was thought to require citrus fruit to avoid. In other words, meat has enough vitamin C to keep us healthy

These men ate no fruits, vegetables, eggs, nuts, or dairy products--only meat, defined as "steaks, chops, brains fried in bacon fat, boiled short-ribs, chicken, fish, liver and bacon." They were not proposing this as a diet, but only trying to see what would happen if they lived on it for a lengthy period. The results were highly informative.

There's some food for thought.

Sheldon

Correction: Stefannson lost ten pounds, which is the amount he was estimated to have been overweight before entering the experiment.

Sheldon

P.S.: I misspelled Stefannson's name in my previous post.