Could you perhaps explain the American Eskimo's diet then and why they have a longer life span than the average American? I mean their diet is made up mostly of fat/protein with very little if any carbs in the winter months.

Perhaps this thread will lead you to some other discussions we have had on the subject of no carb vs low carb.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...ighlight=eskimo

You know -- after 2.5 months I'm still trying to adjust to low-carb vs. low-fat thinking myself - and I'm no kind of "oligist" or MD either. Imagine how it must be for people who've dedicated themselves so completely to the food pyramid [scheme] ? Some people have spent years of their lives & hard earned $$ learning about the kind of nutrition this poster refers to, & now here's a NEW way of looking at things that calls their training into question. It's threatening. Obviously, there are many people who can't digest new ways of thinking about nutrition. For some people, change is threatening & is to be feared and rejected. On the other hand, the rest of us can simply open our minds & reap the benefits!

I feel the need to jump in here and say that I think the resistance you're getting is because you are being far to general. The majority of us do not MAINTAIN a carb level of below or even at 20 grams a day. For some it's quite a bit more.

We all know what we've gotten ourselves into. Do you really have the ego to believe that you are the first nay sayer?

I would also venture to say that FAT is far more essential to a healthy body than carbs. I've actually never even heard of an 'essential carb'.

Why no reply or snappy response to our Trainerdan's research?

Peace,
Brenda

I have a request ... PLEASE, when quoting a long post .. use your mouse to remove the irrelevant parts of the quote, and leave only the statement(s) to which you wish to respond in your reply. It makes for difficult and awkward reading to have to re-read the duplicate of a post that came right before ... and then the reply is a brief message addressing only a tiny part of it. It wastes space, and is inconsiderate of readers with slower dial-up connections to have to scroll and scroll.

If you just wish to make a simple reply, then use the "post reply" button at the top or bottom of the thread.

Thanking you in advance,

Doreen

A Ketogenic Diet Favorably Affects Serum Biomarkers for Cardiovascular Disease in Normal-Weight Men

Matthew J. Sharman, William J. Kraemer, Dawn M. Love, Neva G. Avery, Ana L. Gómez, Timothy P. Scheett and Jeff S. Volek

Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-1110

Very low-carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets are popular yet little is known regarding the effects on serum biomarkers for cardiovascular disease (CVD).

This study examined the effects of a 6-wk ketogenic diet on fasting and postprandial serum biomarkers in 20 normal-weight, normolipidemic men.

Twelve men switched from their habitual diet (17% protein, 47% carbohydrate and 32% fat) to a ketogenic diet (30% protein, 8% carbohydrate and 61% fat) and eight control subjects consumed their habitual diet for 6 wk.

Fasting blood lipids, insulin, LDL particle size, oxidized LDL and postprandial triacylglycerol (TAG) and insulin responses to a fat-rich meal were determined before and after treatment. There were significant decreases in fasting serum TAG (-33%), postprandial lipemia after a fat-rich meal (-29%), and fasting serum insulin concentrations (-34%) after men consumed the ketogenic diet.

Fasting serum total and LDL cholesterol and oxidized LDL were unaffected and HDL cholesterol tended to increase with the ketogenic diet (+11.5%; P = 0.066).

In subjects with a predominance of small LDL particles pattern B, there were significant increases in mean and peak LDL particle diameter and the percentage of LDL-1 after the ketogenic diet.

There were no significant changes in blood lipids in the control group.

To our knowledge this is the first study to document the effects of a ketogenic diet on fasting and postprandial CVD biomarkers independent of weight loss.

The results suggest that a short-term ketogenic diet does not have a deleterious effect on CVD risk profile and may improve the lipid disorders characteristic of atherogenic dyslipidemia .

I never said I agree with the food pyramid. Just like Atkins I agree with CERTAIN aspects of the food pyramid. I agree with certain aspect of the Atkins Diet. I totally disagree with the amount of fat he allows in the diet. Fat is ok but the amounts he says are ok aren't and the reasons for that have been thoroughly documented and study after study for many years have backed this up.

Effects of a Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diet with Nutritional Supplementation in Overweight Individuals

WS Yancy, JS Edman, KF Tomlin, CE Perkins, EC Westman

PURPOSE : Obesity-related illness is the second-leading preventable cause of death in the United States. As the prevalence of obesity increases, many Americans are turning to very-low-carbohydrate diets to lose weight despite little scientific information regarding efficacy and safety. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the body mass and metabolic effects of a very-low-carbohydrate diet and nutritional supplementation in healthy, overweight individuals.

METHODS : Fifty-one overweight (BMI > 25 kg/m2), otherwise healthy individuals (normal history, physical exam and basic laboratory tests) were recruited into this six-month, single-arm, prospective clinical trial. The intervention included dietary counseling based on a popular very-low-carbohydrate (ketone-producing) diet book, group meetings (every other week for 3 months, then monthly for 3 months), daily nutritional supplementation (consisting of vitamins, minerals and oils) and an exercise recommendation. Dietary adherence was monitored by urinary ketone measurement.

RESULTS : Forty-one of 51 subjects (80) attended visits through 16 weeks. This efficacy analysis is based on data from these 41 individuals through 16 weeks. The mean age was 43.7 years (SD = 8.9); 76 were female; 76 were Caucasian, 22 were African-American. At baseline, the mean weight was 87.0 kg (SD = 11.1), BMI was 31.4 kg/m2 (SD = 2.8, range: 25.8 to 39.7 kg/m2), total cholesterol was 214.5 mg/dl (SD = 34.9), LDL was 134.4 mg/dl (SD = 30.4), HDL was 52.5 mg/dl (SD = 13.5), triglycerides were 129.9 mg/dl (SD = 61.9) and total cholesterol/HDL ratio was 4.3 (SD = 1.3).

All subjects lost weight after 16 weeks (range: 2.7 to 17.0 kg). Mean weight decreased by 9.7 kg (SD = 3.4, p < 0.001 by paired t-test); mean BMI decreased by 3.5 kg/m2 (SD = 1.2, range: 1.1 to 6.2 kg/m2, p < 0.001). The amount of weight loss positively correlated with level of urinary ketones (p = 0.003). After 16 weeks, there were significant changes in mean total cholesterol of 11.8 mg/dl (p = 0.03), triglycerides of 52.1 mg/dl (p < 0.001), HDL of +4.7 mg/dl (p = 0.006) and total cholesterol/HDL ratio of 0.7 (p < 0.001). There was no statistically significant change in mean LDL. There were no significant changes over 16 weeks in mean serum uric acid (5.1 to 5.2 mg/dl) or creatinine (0.86 to 0.85 mg/dl), but mean BUN increased from 12.7 to 15.9 mg/dl (p < 0.001). There were no clinically significant adverse effects of the diet.

CONCLUSION : In this study of healthy, overweight individuals, a very-low-carbohydrate diet with nutritional supplementation led to weight loss of 0.6 kg per week. This dietary approach was efficacious for weight loss while significantly improving total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL and total cholesterol/HDL ratio.

How much was each of these individuals' fat intake during this study?

Well, if you cut the carbs in the diet down it must be replaced with something, otehrwise you stand to go into an extreme caloric defecit and we know this will downgrade thyroid activity after a short time.

By adding fat to the diet you add a very calorie dense food source to the mix. And if you consume this additional fat as mainly monounstaurated fats, and Essential Fatty Acids (both of which improve cholesterol profile, as well as a host of other benefits to the body) I do not see where the problem is.

A diet of varied protein sources, monounsaturated fats, essential fatty acids, and some saturated fat is NOT an unhealthy diet. For some, it is the only option as nothing else had worked.

As the studies I have posted above show, it does not affect the markers for CVD ... rather it IMPROVES them.

I don't see the problem.

They used Atkin's guidelines.

infuriator..
Im interested to see youre a personal trainer.

I am a registered nurse with many years experience- including 2 years spent in cardio thoracic surgery. My duties at that time included working with hospital dieticians, actually teaching post operative patients how to exercise and follow a healthy diet . I think I am as well informed as you are. ( better, actually )

I just wanted to say that like most people here, I didnt enter into LC lightly. I have read extensively about the subject.

We all of us have a right to make our own decisions, and mine is based on knowledge, experience and research.

I wish you luck with whatever youre searching for.

Infuriator quipped: "Fat is ok but the amounts he says are ok aren't and the reasons for that have been thoroughly documented and study after study for many years have backed this up."

Please site your references, and if you could, only include studies which isolated high amounts of fat only - not high amounts of carbohydrate, also.

If I may raise another point, do you really think there's only one correct diet for everyone? If so, why? Is there only one 'correct' therapy for depression, for example? Of course not. Some people choose anti-depressants. Some choose 'nature-ceuticals' like St John's Wort or Sam-E. Some choose psychotherapy. Some choose support groups. Some choose a 'spiritual' therapy, perhaps avoiding medical care altogether and only see a preist or other spiritual leader. Is one better than the other? As long as it works, <b>what difference does it make? </b>

Don't you think it's highly likely that many people simply can't handle carbohydrates? Can't you accept the fact that many people have in fact become addicted to them, and that it is literally impossible for them to stop once they start eating them? Can't you accept that the addiction model applies? Accept it, because I'm telling you, <b>it's a real phenomenon</b>. I implore you. You're persuing a career where you're going to be telling people how to eat. Stop acting as if there's only one correct approach and accept that while you may have learned a lot in school, you do not have THE answer.

... and btw: please read the entire book before you criticize it.

I'm new to the board, but I had to jump in and echo previous posts.

Nothing in the article is new or necessarily true, and it isn't going to stop any of us from following Atkins. My nearly 2 months on induction has been nothing short of miraculous and....get this...

My blood pressure and cholesterol are normal, my brain still functions, and I'm not eating more than 1,500 to 1,700 calories in a day because my appetite is under control.

If that's unhealthy, too bad. It's better than being obese.

EVERY weight-loss plan can be bad if someone takes it to an extreme.

Thanks for the response. Another question, don't you think that the high amount of fat that the Atkins Diet suggests is to high in fat as it relates to laying down plaque on the arterial walls and do you think that the large amounts of fat allowed will be deposited as depot fat.
Also, has anyone here had their bodyfat tested before and after trying the Atkins Diet and if so, how much did your lean body mass improve, if at all.

Muscle mass was a big concern for me (as it should be) and so I had my body fat % tested prior to starting the diet and after three months (during which time I lost approximately 20 lbs). As you'll see from my stats below, my % body fat has dropped quite predominantly (7 percentage points). For the majority of time that I have been on the diet (with the exception of the 2 week induction period), I've been consuming 30-40 grams of carbs a day as well as weight training 2 x per week and cycling 35 miles (approximately 2 hours) 3 x a week.