...I just can't resist! Since I am a very opinionated person whose mouth has gotten her in trouble on more than one occasion, and who does not usually sugarcoat things...I'll just leave it that my opinion has been well represented in very eloquent terms by the other very intelligent people on this thread!

Levi, I will say this...we Americans aren't all SOOOO obese! I am the only obese person in my family. My two sisters are normal weight, my parents are very slightly overweight, and my grandparents weren't large, either. My husbands family is all of normal weight.

I went to Paris in 1999 and saw some fat French people (GASP!) And some thin Americans! (Double gasp!) I get annoyed when people paint with a broad brush, and miss the obvious. Are some Americans fat? Hell, yeah. Are some addicted to carbs or other things? Of course. Do some eat too much? I'll let you answer that one. Fill in the circle completely and use a Number 2 pencil!

I will say this...I am treated like I'm "smarter" now that I'm encroaching on a normal weight. I was never treated poorly before, but now no one ever talks down to me anymore, and I like that. I like the way I'm treated when I shop (probably why I'm doing so much shopping these days!!) and I like the extra male attention I get. And (and this is bad) I like looking down my nose at people who weren't so nice before...!

Enough said. Not as eloquent as the rest of you, but there it is.

I could not resist posting. I am working in Germany and have found that all the major stores carry clothes in my my size and much larger. There must be a great demand here or this would not be true. I also see obese people here daily - just as many as in the US, so I assume you are just not looking around. Perhaps it is all the potatoes and heavy bread, as well as lack of fresh vegetables on the menu's in restaurants. I was in the hospital for three days and was served pasta, bread, potatoes and a lot of other white stuff. Very little meat, vegies or fruit. Maybe you better re-examine your premise that Germans are not obese and can eat the high carbs without problems.

I gained weight in a very depressing time in my life and am working to get rid of it, not an easy task in the land of high carbs, but I will succeed.

chaconm

Levi,

This is actually an interesting question - one which many people have probably tried to answer themselves. I know that you are well-meaning, but the people on this forum are the ones trying to DO something about their weight issues, and hence may appear defensive. As you have seen, the answers to the questions vary widely since obesity does not have a single cause.

First, it is important to understand something about the American culture. We are by and large descended from people that were agrigarian. That meant that one worked physically and hard from sun up until sundown. Meals were huge because they needed to be in order to supply adequate calories for farm labor. One was never allowed to waste food - partly because there might come a time when there was not adequate food to eat. We were as children instructed to clean our plates. Nevertheless, foods were farm food - wholesome and pure - lots of vegatables in the summer, smoked and salted meats in the winter. We canned it ourselves so it didn't have fillers and even the sugars were made from maple sap and it was only what could be tapped in the winter. We couldn't buy store sugar as it was too expensive. Snacks were not given. Or consisted of meager servings.

Then our society changed. It became more urban with people working in place for long hours. When I was working I worked at a desk for 60-70 hours a week and only two weeks of vacation - please compare that to your work hours in Germany. I rode a train to work. Physical activity consisted of the walk to and from the train each day. Moreover, we became a land of plenty with all kinds of foods that were at one time "special treats" readily available for daily consumption. In short, what you have in part is a clash between our cultural heritage and modern life.

Second, there are physical causes for obesity which we are only just beginning to understand. Genetics, viruses and other factors may influence why certain people become obese.

Third, so-called "health concious americans" may have actually hurt themselves by following trends that may be unhealthy. Vegitarians may overeat to get adequate protien if they don't understand what they are doing, propaganda against meat in the 1950's - 1980's may also have hurt, popularity of supposedly healthy, but high starch diets have influenced our eating habits (i.e. chinese and italian cooking).

Four, we are event society. Americans love to get together, but these events rarely involve a high level of activity unless one chooses to participate. Thus, we go and watch a ball game - and of course eat. We have BBQ's which center around eating. We meet at a restaurant for a nice meal. Etc. In areas where the "activities" involve physical activity more and where the climate allows for physical activity year round (trust me in the great plains when it is 20 degrees below 0 F, you don't go outside unless you have to), we are thinner and more fit. Food, and high carb food in particular, do not play as important a part in our entertainment.

Hope this helps

j

Levi,

Its a good question, one I think many North Americans have pondered. As you have realized, when you ask a pointed question in this forum, you some times get a defensive answer. It goes with the territory.

I think wannabeslim's answer is a good one. If I can add to it, the work life in North America, particularly in major cities and financial centres can be quite "desk" intense, with little time for some good excercise. And we definitely are an "event society". Couple that with bad eating habits with a heavy emphasis on carbohydrates, excessive alcohol consumption, and a poor understanding of nutrition and you have a recipe for disaster.

I tend to agree with your view on North Americans. Having travelled to Europe many times, my informal observation is that we North Americans do seem physcially bigger. I think that's part of the issue too. Being overweight is a relative measurement. When more people around you are overweight, can freely buy clothes tailored to being overweight, rationalize the weigh scale as not being all that relevant, people tend to ignore their own reality.

Levi,

I have had a few more minutes to reflect on your question. I addressed some of my thoughts on why Americans (I cannot speak for my Canadian counterpart having not lived there) are overweight. I do think climate and genetics (i.e. you didn't survive on the frontier without an ability to bulk up) play a role. But your question also posed another anomily in american society - the fitness extreme - either we are ultra fit or obese. Well, not quite, but there do seem to be these extremes in place.

First of all, there are more than 250 million of us so no one stereotype will fit. But what you may find true is that many Americans are competitive and disciplined with a high level of work ethic. This can cause "over fitness" or obesity at it's extremes. A person tied to his desk all day doesn't pay much attention to what he is eating so long as the bottom line is taken care of. Then you have the fitness extreme, which is essentially the same thing, but applied to one's physique. The energy that some apply to work is applied to staying fit. Thus, you have this apparent dichotomy, which is actually very consistent.

Again it is cultural. I still think all of this stems from Americans having to work so hard to eek a living out of the untamed soil. We were conditioned to make something from nothing. From the frontiering spirit it became the rags to riches story. This is so ingrained in our cultural personna.

Thanks for listening and putting up with my typos.

j

Rhollmer,

You post has been removed for violating our user agreement.

Wa'il

I didn't think Rhollmer's post should have been removed. It was revealing by itself. I think that was kind editing on your part Wa'il, if you know what I mean.

No no - I can understand why that post was pulled. It may have been a little too poignant for some tastes. I just get a little over zealous when I see people that are trying to unfairly critize others. People come to this board and lay it all out there for people to see, as intimate as weight control is for many people, then some kind of person has to come and flaunt their physique. That is a nice physique that Levi is sporting, however I would challenge Levi to be as brave about being as honest and open in a public forum as everyone here seems to be. Just because you have a good physique does NOT mean that the rest of his life is in as perfect an order. Get my drift?

I apologize for the hasty posting and I will try and contain myself within the rules of this board.

My thoughts on Levi's Post...

I think that the question that was posed was valid and thought provoking. The replies to the post were enlightening.

When I first saw the way the question was phrased, I was also concerned, however I believe what some folks are taking as a "flame" is in reality a legitimate question phrased clumsily.

I studied German for 5 years (many years ago!). At the time, I could write and speak fairly well, but NOBODY would ever mistake me for a native! I could use the language, but I was not able to say things the way I would have said them in English. I could not be subtle. I could not be elegant. I could not be tactful. I could only really communicate basic ideas and concepts and hope that the person I was speaking to understood my limitations. And this is easier done face to face, rather than looking at words on a screen.
Consider your conversations in really good ethnic eateries(Chineese, Thai, Indian, etc.)-many of the wait staff speak English, but their construction of the spoken words may not match the way a native speaker would say them.
I would suggest that everyone remember that this board has an International following, and we should not take offence where none was intended.
As to the photograph, while that swimsuit would not be typically seen in the US or Canada, it would certainly be more popular on the beaches of Europe, the Med, and the Carribean.
Levi has been LC'ing for a couple of years and it has worked well for him. If I had been working to lose weight and define muscle and I achieved what Levi did, I might be inclined to show off my physique a bit also. (Note to all- that is not my objective- personally I wish to drop enough weight to be healthy and "more normally sized". I still have a LONG WAY TO GO !

I have gone on longer than intended, so I must bid you all a good night...

There is a satellite channel called Deutsche Welle, which is broadcast from Berlin all over the world so Germans who are living or travelling outside Germany can keep up with the news, etc. at home.

Much of the programming is, of course, in German, but the news and several other shows are also broadcast in English and Spanish at different times of the day.

My DH and I have a satellite dish and we like to watch these shows because we learn a lot about European news and attitudes that we never see on the news in the U.S. (We used to watch the news from Canada until the CBC scrambled the satellite channels! But that's another story)

Last night we were watching a show called Germany Today and one of the guests was a doctor who talked about the growing number of obese adults and children in Germany, and the dramatic increases in diabetes, hypertension, etc.

So Levi, we aren't the only ones with this problem, and it probably has the same cause, because Coke and McDonalds and high carb, high sugar junk food in general is spreading across the globe like a plague. Even the French are succumbing to the convenience of fast foods. I just hope the Europeans skip the low fat nonsense and figure out that it's the excess carbs causing the problem.

Karla

At first I was "incited"...just as Levi intended me to be...
Then I was confused....is that REALLY him in the picture?
Then I rolled my eyes at his second post...getting a gut reaction and instinct that he was really enjoying the hubbub he caused.
Then I had to smile at all the wonderful and insiteful answers...and how well all of you restrained yourselfs (not that all of you had too, but I'm sure some did)
I was secretly cheering on some of you...you tell it like it is girls/guys!
And laughing at the oh-so-funny "gotcha's" posted by some (loved your post Atkid)....

Lesson learned....
Listen first...speak MUCH later!
You ALL rock...even you Levi!

Levi,

I couldnt resist adding a post even though the previous post was a month ago...

Being British I would like to think I can be regarded as vaguely neutral. I have worked for both US and German companies and from what I saw I don't think there is that much difference. However, a LOT more Germans seem to smoke thab Americans (and Europe in general) which I am sure is related.

On refelction I think I would prefer to go quickly with a heart attack than die slowly from cancer.

Zzoom

Good point but I think that Levi is long since slithered away from this board.

Why is north america taking such a hit.
Germany IS NOT full of skinny body building levi's. quite the opposite.
Holland also fills its people full of white breads and potato dishes.
My brother spent two years there and came home from being a slim young man to an overweight young man. Its happened to SEVERAL others I have known in the same region.
Fact is.. in North America or Europe we are fighting the same battle. Even the French are catching up as they start to fill in with carbs that are too easy to digest and save as Fat.
Levi KNOWS the answer to his question.
I was waiting for him to explain why his assumption was all the same.. and WORSE for the women.
I know. not really the thread topic.
But Levi has plenty of German's to ASk about why they are obese. He really does. North America is not the creator nor the soul owner of this problem
We screw up our hormonal system and eat foods that are too easy to produce and then save on the body as Fat.
Most of us "north American" ladies have DIETED ourselves to fatness. Trying against all odds with low fat high carb diest endorsed by the government and supported by big business with their cheaply produceds diet foods..
LOL.. My ex husband just bought some "french pastries" made of puff pastry and coated with cinnamon and sugar.. and they were touted as being "healthy" according to the AHA....
With information like that.. HOW can we possibly win the battle?

Levi

I am Irish but am living in Germany with my BF, so I think I can point out some things that you as a native german may not see.

1Firstly, fruit and vegetables are about a billion times cheaper in Germany. I can get broccoli, cauliflower etc. for about 50 cent in my local Lidl. I can get a basket of fruits for a similar price . In Chicago for instance, one apple costs about $1. My brothers lived on fast food when they were students in the US simply because healthy food is so expensive there

2 The low fat fad did not sweep through Germany as much as through the US. So Germans kept on having their salad with real, high fat non sugar filled sauce

3 I don't know where you live, but I see loads of OBESE ppl here. However, in Germany ppl seems to suddendly get fat when they reach their 30's or 40's. I theorise that this is because they eat enough good stuff in the form of Wurst and veggies to protect them from all the sugar they consume, but in mid life their pancreas and hormonal system has had enough and can't take anymore, even though they are still having their protein

4 The German govt protects its poor and unemployed. My friend has been unemployed for 11 months and receives 580 euros a month plus a rent allowance. Given that food is cheap anyway, he won't be forced to eat high carb gunk , EVER

5 There are loadds of cheap exercise facilities in Germany in the form of swimming pools. I don't think this is the case in the US

6 Everyone has health insurance so can go to as many docs as they want if they are concerned about their weight. This may not solve the problem, but there ARE some enlightened docs around


Oh and BTW Germany has the highest BMI in Europe. I really don't know where you get the idea that there are no REALLY fat Germans. When I was in Turkey recently everyone at the tourist resort catered to Germans, selling Wurst, automatically talking German to you even before you opened your mouth etc. Well, when I went shopping I was told that I was slim because most of the sellers market catered to Germans and they are [direct quote] " big".