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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-22, 11:36
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLx
It's fascinating how journalists with no ability other than to form words and summarize a study can unintentionally distort the issues.

That quote was from the study, not the NYT. Here's what else they said in the link I posted:
Quote:
Changes in weight were not significantly different in the two groups at the 12-month assessment.... Results of analyses of waist circumferences, BMI, body fat, body lean mass, blood pressure, and metabolic risk factors were consistent with the results of the primary outcome.

Since the NYT article is behind a paywall, I can only refer to the short study description as reported by the NEJM. My comment was on articles in general citing nutrition/eating studies that are often misinterpreted or cannot be assessed for quality by the journalist, particularly if the NYT used only the NEJM summary as its source. In addition, I find no statements of rigor in how study subjects controlled, measured or reported accurate calorie consumption, as it's simply a summary of findings.
Quote:
Background The long-term efficacy and safety of time-restricted eating for weight loss are not clear.

At the end of this study, I believe the previous statement is still true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLx
I know that cutting calories for me is not sustainable, slows my metabolism, and causes cravings that are hard to resist and lead to poor food choices. When I eat healthy whole food that doesn't spike my blood glucose, I can eat in a small window of time without any of the other issues and get the benefits of stable blood glucose and autophagy.

I believe the point being made here is that you are cutting calories by eating in a small window of time. What Peter Attia said recently in this podcast is that...

"3000 calories spread out over the day 12 hrs, versus 6 hrs, versus narrow window of eating – no difference."

Now if a person would ordinarily eat 4,000 calories over 12 hours, then eating only 6 hours resulting in 3,000 calories instead is an obvious advantage.

Yes and that's one of my points, that people who eat in smaller windows may consume fewer calories. The other part of this is that those who eat satiating food during those smaller eating windows including increasing good-quality protein and lower carb vegetables may eat even less and still be satiated without corresponding lean-mass loss. The calorie count may be positively impacted. Yet it doesn't appear that food quality was part of the referenced study, which is very hard to control in human subjects. My observation was purely from my experiences, and my history of eating more frequently over longer periods of time was a failure for me. I don't doubt the study is accurate, but applying it as a "one size fits all" has never worked for me, and I suspect others. Many I know can eat different foods on a different schedule than I, and some do very well. So, it's fine to observe that.

I believe a key in pursuing nutritional health is understanding the added complexity of how we all vary. It's why reading a diet book or article can put some on a good path, but the rest is up to the individual to discover how to fine-tune it based on personal results. This is an important message, as many (the majority?) aren't willing to do the introspective deep dive to make those discoveries.

This conflicts with many other studies; yet, it's refreshing to read about a human study despite how hard it is to have rigorous controls for us. However, there are many who are researching the metabolic benefits of caloric restriction through a variety of methods. Attia, I find I need to take his statements with a grain of salt. Yes, he's focused on longevity, but I believe his references about loss of lean mass were in observation of the times he did longer fasts. It's a good sign to see him adapt and change his views over time, that's science, as good science is never static. Mark Mattson is an extremely knowledgeable person in this field as well. And yes, Walter Longo is not yet out of a job.
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-24, 09:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,509
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
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New Optimal Protein podcast,

The entire transcript is posted, but near the start is…
Quote:
“It probably takes something like three days of complete fasting to upregulate autophagy in a similar matter to 30 minutes of exercise.
Wow, that's a lot.
Yes, it's a big difference. And there's really no evidence that that fasting is better in any way than exercise. So in general, there are two main things we can take away.
One is that fasting doesn't do that much in humans, it seems, unless maybe after a very prolonged fasting and then sort of thinking about, well, what are your goals here with this fast, I think is worth thinking about. And also, we can't compare fasting studies in mice to humans pretty much at all because it's a much bigger energetic stress for mice. Mice die if they don't eat for 24 hours, whereas humans can last potentially weeks as long as they are getting some water.”


From Optimal Protein Podcast (Fast Keto) with Vanessa Spina: Fasting VS Exercise: Autophagy & Mitochondrial Biogenesis with Dr. Tommy Wood, Apr 8, 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...i=1000651814188
This material may be protected by copyright.

Fascinating research! Like Dr Attia, extended fasting brought no additional benefit over a mild TRE, e.g. 8 hours, plus modest exercise. Getting enough protein and nutrients becomes more important as we age.
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  #18   ^
Old Sat, Apr-13-24, 04:36
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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I believe extended fasting was something Dr. Fung used with his morbidly obese patients with kidney disease. With special meals to help them transition throughout.

But there's nothing that won't be marketed to a person's literal death, and there are people who make a living by going too far, and convincing others to do so. He had a podcast a while back that described the medical process.

I'm not surprised it wouldn't work the same way in healthier people. And despite all my jokes about low carb jail, it's happened: bariatric surgeons put people in the hospital on a low carb diet because it's now a medical emergency.

You'd think we'd learn from that... and behind the scenes, perhaps we have. The food landscape now is both worse and better than it was when I started low carbing in 2003.

Look at all we've learned since then! While paddling against the corporate tide.

It's inspiring.
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  #19   ^
Old Sat, Apr-13-24, 04:50
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,509
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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But when I checked Kindle best sellers in the Weight Loss category, four of Dr Fung's Fasting Books are still there in the top 25…Even the one with Jimmy Moore who is actually in jail.
I'm headed out for my morning walk..and it is longer than 30 minutes.
It's all about autophagy

I tried fasting too but "evolved", it did not work for me.
Fasting for Longer is not Better:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Apr-13-24 at 07:31.
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  #20   ^
Old Sat, Apr-13-24, 16:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
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Progress: 129%
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Jimmy Moore's in jail? Of course, I spent the last few years not keeping up with much of anything. I will hunt that down.

He did promote that very low calorie scam, Kimkins. Which made it onto a magazine cover.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Apr-14-24, 08:12
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Jimmy Moore's in jail? Of course, I spent the last few years not keeping up with much of anything. I will hunt that down.

He did promote that very low calorie scam, Kimkins. Which made it onto a magazine cover.

In May 2022, Moore was arrested for seven counts of statutory rape. His victim was a 13-year-old girl whom he had molested in 2019. He pleaded guilty to all child sexual abuse charges. In January 2023, Moore was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Apr-14-24, 08:49
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Posts: 1,974
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
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Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Jimmy Moore's in jail? Of course, I spent the last few years not keeping up with much of anything. I will hunt that down.

He did promote that very low calorie scam, Kimkins. Which made it onto a magazine cover.

Kimkins also ended up in a class action suit, which Kimmer (Heidi Diaz) lost - but as far as I know, she's never paid out a penny of it.

The diet itself was stolen from Stillman's - only unlike how Stillman restricted the amount of time you could be on his diet, Kimmer claimed you could stay on Kimkins until you reached goal.

She also threw in quite a bit of the HCG diet creator A. Simeons tendency to harass and demean his patients (in her case Kimkins members) if they didn't adhere to every single tiny rule of his dangerously low calorie diet (and he was the one who determined if his patients were "cheating" based on their weight loss - no weight loss? Obviously cheating)

It seems that Heidi still has the kimkins site, but she's apparently changed the name to Simple Choices. (although I can't currently find the website, so )

There is an update to the kimkins story here:

https://dietsinreview.com/diet_colu...and-bankruptcy/

(The diets in review site apparently changes all dates at the beginning of each year, because that page was supposedly updated Oct '24 - and I don't think they're predicting the future, so I don't know when it was actually last updated. I think they just keep changing the date at the beginning of each year in an attempt to make sure others don't fall prey to Heidi Diaz and her continuing unhealthy diet schemes)
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Apr-15-24, 04:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
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Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Golly I missed a lot. But I was on bed rest for five months... Somewhere 😁

Still working on Dr. Ede's book along with the Taubes diabetes book. I have improved to the point that I'm working on two books at once AND started videos on a TikTok channel.

Am I a poster girl?

Dr Ede is very good about explaining the "people-processed"dilemma" and urges that a good first step is ditching refined sugar and starches and refined oils. Nothing but harm!
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Apr-15-24, 06:20
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,781
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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I did three days on green tea and coconut oil, but it was to shut down a serious autoimmune flare. Which it did in spectacular fashion. But I was a medical case. It's certainly not something that should be routine. i shrink my eating window since if I'm not hungry enough as dinnertime approaches, I'll skip dinner, since lunch is usually my big meal.

It took 20 years, but low carb guided me to a my optimum diet, anyway! Because I got so sick my tolerance for ANYTHING fell through the floor, and I could only eat what my body really&truly agreed with.

I seem to not need the OMAD of one pound of hamburger I used to eat. If I was hungry I had a second, smaller, meal of the same thing. Since I don't really eat much plants, it supports my theory that my body can't get nutrition from plants. I have some fruit and veg that gets along with me, and if I want them I have them. But I can also sense my limits with them.

I think this shows that Intuitive Eating does work. If, as in the original Davis Experiment, the only offerings are actually nutritious for people in general.

I remember her use of cod liver oil which had demonstrable healing effects for rickets. The boy most affected CRAVED it. (Have you ever had cod liver oil? This is not the usual, I can tell ya.) As the child grew strong, they started taking less, then stopped.

Perhaps these kinds of actions have a beneficial side to them. Actual body wisdom can exist or how did we get here?

But it only works when the food zone isn't flooded with stuff designed to hijack that vital system.
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