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  #46   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 12:31
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,649
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle

Perhaps this is why juicing for cancer treatment ( over the border of course) works. Less stress on the body. IDK-- thinking out loud.


This is another thing I learned that juicing does nothing to break the cell wall, only cooking does that. It's the same as eating raw unjuiced veggies, it all ends up in the Colon.
Optimally, we want food that begins digesting in the stomach first and then in the small intestines where we can absorb the nutrients all along the way. When it all ends up in the Colon, it begins to ferment and acidify.
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 12:38
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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So........ vegetable soups?????? What is your thought on this.
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 12:59
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,649
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
So........ vegetable soups?????? What is your thought on this.


Yes, cooked soups would be my choice.

Yeck, for that matter, I remember some French soups that remove the veggies and eat the broth. Maybe there was a reason for that?
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  #49   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 13:03
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Interesting.

Now that you mention it, a lot of soups start with a broth. Vegie put into the water and then removal of those flavoringings by straining. i always thought so wasteful. But maybe the chefs of old knew something. Then a protein added back in , like cooked chicken, a few bits of mushroom or scrambled egg....

Chris Kimball just televised a visit to Japan, and the method of cooking is all water/broth based. Some stir fry over rice of course.
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  #50   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 13:59
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,649
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Interesting.

Now that you mention it, a lot of soups start with a broth. Vegie put into the water and then removal of those flavoringings by straining. i always thought so wasteful. But maybe the chefs of old knew something. Then a protein added back in , like cooked chicken, a few bits of mushroom or scrambled egg....

Chris Kimball just televised a visit to Japan, and the method of cooking is all water/broth based. Some stir fry over rice of course.


Braise, bake them, fry them, steam them, oven roast them.

If I make a broth I definitely have meat in there.
You can start with sauteing the veggies in the pot first. Sweating them. Then add the meat nestled into the veggies to touch the bottom of pot and let that brown. Then add the water. Not in a gallon but in a cup cup at a time with a top and string. This develops the flavor. Add more water as it goes.

I learned how to cook slow in layers building flavor after getting an amazing recipe for real Gumbo many years ago. It literally takes 3-4 hours to cook. The end result is amazing. But it takes time because you wait for the fat rise to the top every time before adding another ingredient..

Last edited by Meme#1 : Mon, Apr-08-19 at 14:14.
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  #51   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 14:47
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Wow, that must be amazing gumbo!!

There was a time when a pot was always simmering over a fire.....

I cook similar to that, usually fat/oil and onions to start. Salt at several steps. Brown the meats for flavor; etc

One of my favorites is roast a heritage turkey, the cut up into peices that fit a stock pot. Cover with water. Add a ton of garlic salt. I could eat that for days. Just left on simmer. Kids took a bowl when they were hungry. Not sure it was good for the electric bill though.
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 15:54
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,649
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Wow, that must be amazing gumbo!!

There was a time when a pot was always simmering over a fire.....

I cook similar to that, usually fat/oil and onions to start. Salt at several steps. Brown the meats for flavor; etc

One of my favorites is roast a heritage turkey, the cut up into peices that fit a stock pot. Cover with water. Add a ton of garlic salt. I could eat that for days. Just left on simmer. Kids took a bowl when they were hungry. Not sure it was good for the electric bill though.


I like celery with onions and spices sprinkled into that mix as it cooks. That makes a rich base. Celery has very few carbs too! Both cook down and melts into the broth if it's diced small. If I want visible chunky pieces in the soup I will cut the pieces larger.
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 17:57
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Wish more people understood making chicken soup is stupid easy. Saute onions, celery and carrots. Add chicken bone in ,water, salt. Then pepper, thymes, sage, rosemary. Onion powder and garlic powder add another dimension, thou optional.

I think about how long fire has been part of the human evolution. And Im thinking raw foods may have not been a safe option but cooking changes that to safe eating

When did we start eating salads??
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  #54   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 18:31
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,649
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle

When did we start eating salads??


The 60s-70s, same timing with low-fat.
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  #55   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 18:38
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JLx JLx is offline
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Posts: 2,154
 
Plan: Eat less, less often
Stats: 235/203/191 Female 66
BF:Hi wt: 276,255,235
Progress: 73%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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I'm sitting here munching on a 14.7 fiber gram muffin. .6 carbs. Found the recipe on Keto Connect. Very tasty. I won't share the recipe for obvious reasons. (Not here to argue, just to make the point that fiber is not a menace to all of us.)
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  #56   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 19:38
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Jl, im not against choices. I have made many lc options using bran. Would buy BIG bag for horses and stash a bit in the freezer.

I enjoyed many lc mim!

If u read thru the info posted so far, problems for most start at over forty, and much older.

Im in the older group AND with colon cancer looming. Would like to avoid a bowel resection.

Enjoy your muffin!!!!! Bet it's tasty!!!
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  #57   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-19, 07:52
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
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Posts: 2,154
 
Plan: Eat less, less often
Stats: 235/203/191 Female 66
BF:Hi wt: 276,255,235
Progress: 73%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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I learned this about fiber and the liver somewhat recently and it's encouraged me to be more diligent about getting fiber. (I think it does help you feel full longer too and is a weight loss help in that way, as well as delaying sugar absorption.)

Quote:
Some of this new work shows that fiber plays an essential role in a little-known (and critically important) system in our body called enterohepatic circulation. Entero is Latin for relating to the intestines, or gut; hepatic is Latin for pertaining to the liver. This system, which has the key job of clearing all fat-soluble waste from the bloodstream, governs the progression of bile — from the liver, through the small intestine, and back again.

If we don’t eat enough soluble fiber, our bile, instead of being ushered out of the body and then replaced with fresh bile produced by the liver, is repeatedly recirculated in our system. In the process, it becomes more concentrated with toxins, which, in turn, can lead to all sorts of inflammatory diseases such as gallbladder disease, intestinal inflammation, and even skin conditions like acne, eczema and psoriasis.

Ultimately, a low-fiber diet can contribute to elevated levels of toxicity throughout the body, explains Alejandro Junger, MD, director of Integrative Medicine at Manhattan-based Lenox Hill Hospital and author of Clean: The Revolutionary Program to Restore the Body’s Natural Ability to Heal Itself (HarperOne, 2009).

“When we don’t eat fiber, the toxins that we should be eliminating through our bowels get reabsorbed into the bloodstream — and that can cause many problems,” Junger says. ...And, the end effect of all this toxicity is inflammation — virtually everybody is inflamed today — which negatively affects various organs in many different ways.”

Recent research has also focused on the way fiber boosts the immune system. It turns out that a wide variety of fiber-dependent processes are key to maintaining our resistance both to infections and to immune-related diseases like cancer. ...

“Estrogen is made from fats. It’s an example of a fat-soluble waste that is cleared by the liver,” Hurd explains. “But if you don’t ➺ properly eliminate polluted bile, that estrogen goes back into your bloodstream, and the estrogen levels in your bloodstream mount,” she continues. “Then those estrogens can stimulate the growth of abnormal cells, which can lead to the growth of cancerous cells. And, then we have estrogen-type cancers, such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, fallopian tube cancer, ovarian cancer and vaginal cancer. Why are these cancers being stimulated? Because estrogen is stimulating their growth. Why do we have so much estrogen? Because we never threw it away via elimination when we had the chance.” https://experiencelife.com/article/...than-you-think/


Interesting, no?
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  #58   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-19, 08:59
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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That is pretty much in line with fiber menace. He doesnt say NO fiber. IT is about what kind, and how much.

From https://experiencelife.com/article/...than-you-think/
Quote:
If we don’t eat enough soluble fiber, our bile, instead of being ushered out of the body and then replaced with fresh bile produced by the liver, i


However, fiber doesnt cause the bile to be squirted out, only fats can do this. Perhaps he means the soluble fiber is helpful in the recovery of the bile for reuse. That is a new theory to me. Maybe it is broken down into its parts and brought back into the body for the components to be reused. My question would be how to the Masai and the Inuit manage on a traditional diet without much plant material for fiber???

Plenty of fiber in a yam, peeled apple, green beans, baby greens, and the list goes on and on.

The issue is that these fibers are NOT the same as bran fiber and hulls. Those are the harshest as we cannot digest them. and usually the milling process leaves them in jagged pieces. To feed to horses, bran is made into a hot wet mash. Perhaps that does help decrease the rough texture.

While bran based muffin in a minute helped me thru dropping the pounds, fats also help with appetite control.

Also, regarding appetite control, when I go to two meals, then down to one, it is because Im not hungry. When can burn my own fat supply, Im even less hungry. Not that this is perfect, and hunger can happen and does, just that the overall effect is less food. And I dont use MIM at this time.

I bought a box of baby kale/ baby spinach to saute.

Strawberry bed is planted and fenced; garlic is growing; shallots are in. Hundreds of tomato starts waiting for transplant; peas ready to go in; lettuces waiting for row cover to arrive; dill, cumin, sage, etc under the grow lights along with basil. Celery and parsley already out in the mini green house.

Dozens of fruit trees are planted: cherry, peaches, nectarines, pears, APPLES and mulberries. Planning to add paw-paw and fig and more.

Everyone with a yard should have a dwarf cherry or two!!



Also, in cattle, they have a 4 section "stomache". One is a huge fermenting vat called the rumen. Chewing their cud is a regurgitation of a bolus of this fibrous material for rechewing. ( This is a relaxing process and the brain waves are often in sleep mode.) Another section is a very fine sieve. Only the finest particles can pass into the intestines. We don't have this sieve.

I hope this convinces you that what we are trying to discuss is what is an optimal diet given the structure and function of the human GI track, and how it can malfunction, and options to fix problems that arise.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Tue, Apr-09-19 at 09:09.
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  #59   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-19, 12:14
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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JLx has brought up a few points so Im heading down the rabbit hole, AGAIN ! lol

Quote:
Fatty acids in the lumen of the duodenum stimulate endocrine cells to release the hormone cholecystokinin (CCK). CCK stimulates contractions in the smooth muscle of the gallbladder. As well, CCK causes relaxation of the sphincter of Oddi, allowing bile release into the duodenum.
Regulation of Bile Release
https://courses.washington.edu/conj...bile/bile.html]


Quote:
What is the function of bile?
Bile contains bile acids, which are critical for digestion and absorption of fats and fat-soluble vitamins in the small intestine. Many waste products, including bilirubin, are eliminated from the body by secretion into bile and elimination in feces.
Secretion of Bile and the Role of Bile Acids In Digestion
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbook...liver/bile.html


Quote:
Foods that may increase bile production in the liver
Drink a glass of water with lemon upon awakening.
Avoid eating sugars and processed foods.
Consume bitter foods.
Eat garlic, onions, and carrots.
Drink tea made from dandelion, peppermint, green tea, or ginger.
Drink buttermilk and eat yogurt.
Oct 10, 2016
Bile function and liver: Foods that help increase bile production
https://www.belmarrahealth.com/bile...-bile-productio


Quote:

WOW--- this is sure to make people fatter....
[QUOTE]Eat smaller, more-frequent meals. This may ensure a better mix with available bile. A healthy meal should include small amounts of lean protein, such as poultry, fish or fat-free dairy, along with vegetables, fruits and whole grains.
Can you recommend a diet after gallbladder removal? - Mayo Clinic
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pr...../faq-20057813


Quote:
Pale or clay-colored stools are not normal. If your stools are pale or clay-colored, you may have a problem with the drainage of your biliary system, which is comprised of your gallbladder, liver, and pancreas. Bile salts are released into your stools by your liver, giving the stools a brown color.
Pale stools: Causes, Symptoms and Diagnosis - Healthline
https://www.healthline.com/symptom/pale-stools


Quote:


According to the scientists whose research revealed these figures, “Caffeine inhibits biliary cholesterol crystallization, decreases gall-bladder fluid absorption, and increases hepatic bile flow. Cafestol, a lipid component contained in coffee beans, may affect bile cholesterol concentration.”Oct 28, 2011
Coffee Health Benefits: How Coffee Might Save Your Life
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coffe...-save-your-life



Quote:

Peanuts decreased the risk only by 19%, peanut butter consumption decreased the risk by 15%, whereas other nuts lowered the risk for gallstones by 35%. ... They are the ones that are found in nuts or vegetables, but not in meat.Dec 1, 2004
Nuts To Bust Gallstones Says Harvard - Medical Articles by Dr. Ray
https://www.askdrray.com/nuts-to-bu...s-says-harvard/
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  #60   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-19, 12:15
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 11,136
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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A part of a class lecture.https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.co...tionid=45431412


Understand the physiologic functions of bile as a route for excretion and in aiding in the digestion and absorption of dietary lipids
Understand how bile acids are formed from cholesterol, how they are modified during gut passage, and their role in driving bile secretion
Describe the mechanisms that regulate the rate of conversion of cholesterol into bile acids
Describe the major biliary lipids and how they are transported into the canaliculus
Describe how the composition of bile is modified as the bile moves through the biliary ductules
Define the cellular transport mechanisms that render bile alkaline
Understand the consequences of a failure to secrete bile, and conditions that cause this problem
Role and Significance
Image not available. The liver fulfills its excretory function by producing bile, a lipid-rich solution designed to promote the elimination of hydrophobic solutes. Bile consists of a micellar solution in which bile acids, products of hepatocytes produced by the metabolism of cholesterol, form mixed micelles with phosphatidylcholine. These mixed micelles solubilize molecules that would otherwise have minimal aqueous solubility, such as cholesterol itself and a variety of xenobiotics. In addition to its role in providing for excretion of hydrophobic waste products, bile also plays an important role in the digestion and absorption of lipids ingested in the diet. Bile acids form mixed micelles with the products of lipid digestion, increasing the rate at which they can diffuse across the aqueous environment of the gastrointestinal lumen. While bile acids are not essential for the uptake of most fatty acids, which have appreciable aqueous solubility, they do markedly increase the efficiency of this process. On the other hand, insoluble dietary lipids, such as saturated long-chain fatty acids and fat-soluble vitamins, are almost entirely dependent on micellar solubilization for absorption. In patients suffering from cholestasis, deficiencies of fat soluble vitamins can occur. Bile acids also influence bacterial populations in the gut, both by being (in micellar form) directly antimicrobial, and by inducing the expression of genes that protect against bacterial overgrowth.

Image not available. Bile secretion in the liver is driven primarily by the active, ATP-dependent efflux of conjugated bile acids out of the hepatocyte into the canaliculus. In some animals, there is also a variable component of bile acid-independent bile flow, although the solutes that drive this secretion are not fully understood. But in humans, canalicular bile flow is almost entirely dependent on the secretion of bile acids. Thus, in this section, we will consider how bile acids are synthesized, and subsequent modifications to their structure that promote their role as biological detergents.

Formation of Bile Acids from Cholesterol
Bile acids are amphipathic end products of cholesterol metabolism. The term amphipathic refers to the fact that bile acids have both a hydrophobic and hydrophilic face, and form micelles. This is essential to their physiologic function, as will be discussed later.

Synthesis of bile acids from cholesterol occurs in the hepatocytes, and ...

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