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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 11:18
LiterateGr's Avatar
LiterateGr LiterateGr is offline
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Plan: Atkins/General LC
Stats: 240.0/167.2/155 Female 5 '9"
BF:36/29.5/25
Progress: 86%
Default Went looking for info in IF... hoo-boy!

This morning, I started another fast.

I've been pretty erratic with my IF, and for the past week, stress/pain/injury has meant I haven't wanted to deal. I've been hungry (Sometimes HUNGRY), so I've eaten.

But I know that the books I've read on IF for diabetes control had some specifics on how and how often to do it. I don't yet OWN those books (I've been getting them from the library), so I wanted to quickly look those guidelines up online. I was crossing the house, but had my phone in my hand, so typed in "How to do IF for diabetes control".

*cringes*

Is Intermittent Fasting Safe for People With Diabetes?

The article starts off sounding positive, then gives all the popular hype... how fasting will destabilize blood-sugar levels, and make you binge on high-carb foods.

Then, there's this gem:

Quote:
People with diabetes also run the risk of diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a complication of diabetes that occurs when the body can’t produce enough insulin. Insulin brings glucose into the cells, but when the body doesn’t have enough insulin because carbohydrates aren’t accessible during the fasting periods, the body overproduces ketones. “The ketones from burning fat too quickly have built up in their system, and that could damage the kidneys and go to the brain and cause brain swelling,” Pupo says. Diabetic ketoacidosis may even lead to a diabetic coma or death.




Just... how the frell can they post things that are THAT wrongheaded?


(I DID eventually find what I was looking for... this was just the FIRST search-result.)
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 20:06
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

I had a similar type of experience last weekend. I had done my first fast and was looking for information on the best time to exercise while doing a fast. I found a web site that seemed to have information or people who would have knowledge of it. Instead, it turned out to be people who seemed to just yell back and forth while claiming that the other person was wrong and they were right. I left rather quickly.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-01-19, 04:32
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
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Dr. Jason Fung's IDM ( Intensive Dietary Management ) Blog:

intermittent fasting

fasting

TRE (time-restricted eating) is well worth looking into also, if you haven't already.

Satchin Panda, Ph.D. on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health 7-1-16

What time to start eating when doing time-restricted eating

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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-01-19, 07:42
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Dr. Jason Fung's IDM ( Intensive Dietary Management ) Blog:

intermittent fasting

fasting

TRE (time-restricted eating) is well worth looking into also, if you haven't already.

Satchin Panda, Ph.D. on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health 7-1-16

What time to start eating when doing time-restricted eating



Recently watched a utube by Zero, looking at this insulin sensativity and circadian rhythm..... both saying the same thing.

When I was trying to get better corisol control, low morning carb intake and building over the next two meal helps reset the cortisol clock. I followed this and found it worked however my sleep has pushed later into the night.
Looks like a dinner meal at the 6-7 pm limit with the most carbs at this meal would be ideal. It provides more time between meal and bedtime to get the blood sugar post meal taken care of, allowing the melanonin to work to create "sleep".

Great! Thanks for posting that link. A good reminder WHY last meal needs to be finished by 7pm.

PS. no wonder my OMAD trial worked so well. One meal at 2pm realized the best of everything.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Fri, Mar-01-19 at 07:48.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 07:42
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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I am exploring how very low carb impacts my sleep as I lean more and more towards zero lately. But the revving up of ketosis might be a factor... more experimentation needed
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 08:41
Nrracing Nrracing is offline
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Plan: Custom 22/2 Clean Fast
Stats: 290/258/210 Male 72.5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I am exploring how very low carb impacts my sleep as I lean more and more towards zero lately. But the revving up of ketosis might be a factor... more experimentation needed


Please, I would really like to know more about sleep and magnesium. My sleep seems to be much less but I am not tired at all. I find my self going to bed at 9 pm, and waking at like 5 am ready to go. I am not sure if that is fine or not. I feell great, eat LCHF and follow it.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 09:28
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bevangel bevangel is offline
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Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
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Location: Austin, TX
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Nrracing... if you're getting pretty close to 8 hours sleep every night, wake up ready to go, and you're feeling "great," then of course that is FINE. Heck, it's better than "fine." In fact, it looks to me like you've got textbook-perfect HEALTHY sleep pattern!
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 12:22
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
Nrracing... if you're getting pretty close to 8 hours sleep every night, wake up ready to go, and you're feeling "great," then of course that is FINE. Heck, it's better than "fine." In fact, it looks to me like you've got textbook-perfect HEALTHY sleep pattern!


I agree.

However, anyone who needs help can join me: this weekend I am trying free Doc Parsley sleep remedy and I hear good things.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 12:51
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I agree.

However, anyone who needs help can join me: this weekend I am trying free Doc Parsley sleep remedy and I hear good things.


I assume it's a powder,so do you put it in a beverage and drink it or is it good enough to just add water?
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-06-19, 13:42
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I assume it's a powder,so do you put it in a beverage and drink it or is it good enough to just add water?


It says the taste is better in warm water, but is supposed to dissolve in any liquid. Also contains a small amount of artificial sweeteners that most people get along with.

I could probably drink the unsweetened stuff -- I've been doing sublingual supps for a while now. I'm tough!
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Mar-07-19, 13:28
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teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...90306171247.htm

Quote:
Fasting-mimicking diet holds promise for treating people with inflammatory bowel disease
Clinical trial shows reduction of inflammation in humans; diet appears to reverse Crohn's and colitis pathology in mice

What if a special diet could reduce inflammation and repair your gut?

USC researchers provided evidence that a low-calorie "fasting-mimicking" diet has the potential to do just that. Published in the March 5 edition of Cell Reports, the study reports on the health benefits of periodic cycles of the diet for people with inflammation and indicated that the diet reversed inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) pathology in mice.

Results showed that fasting-mimicking diet caused a reduction in intestinal inflammation and an increase in intestinal stem cells in part by promoting the expansion of beneficial gut microbiota. Study authors say the reversal of IBD pathology in mice, together with its anti-inflammatory effects demonstrated in a human clinical trial, indicate that the regimen has the potential to mitigate IBD.

"This study for the first time combines two worlds of research," said Valter Longo, a study author and the director of the USC Longevity Institute at the USC Leonard Davis School of Gerontology and professor of biological sciences at the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences. "The first is about what you should eat every day, and many studies point to a diet rich in vegetables, nuts and olive oil. The second is fasting and its effects on inflammation, regeneration and aging."

By combining these fields of research using the fasting-mimicking diet, the authors were able to reduce the inflammation and pathology associated with intestinal diseases.

Longo said for people with a poor diet, a "once in a while" fix is the periodic use of a low-calorie, plant-based diet that causes cells to act like the body is fasting. Earlier clinical trials conducted by Longo and colleagues allowed participants to consume between 750 and 1,100 calories per day over a five-day period and contained specific proportions of proteins, fats and carbohydrates. Participants saw reduced risk factors for many life-threatening diseases.

"Fasting is hard to stick to and it can be dangerous," Longo said. "We know that the fasting-mimicking diet is safer and easier than water-only fasting, but the big surprise from this study is that if you replace the fasting-mimicking diet, which includes pre-biotic ingredients, with water, we don't see the same benefits."

In the study, one group of mice adhered to a four-day fasting-mimicking diet by consuming approximately 50 percent of their normal caloric intake on the first day and 10 percent of their normal caloric intake from the second through fourth days. Another group fasted with a water-only diet for 48 hours.

The study demonstrated that two cycles of a four-day fasting-mimicking diet followed by a normal diet appeared to be enough to mitigate some, and reverse other, IBD-associated pathologies or symptoms. In contrast, water-only fasting came up short, indicating that certain nutrients in the fasting-mimicking diet contribute to the microbial and anti-inflammatory changes necessary to maximize the effects of the fasting regimen.

"We've determined that the dietary components are contributing to the beneficial effects; it's not just about the cells of the human body but it's also about the microbes that are affected by both the fasting and the diet," Longo said. "The ingredients in the diet pushed the microbes to help the fasting maximize the benefits against IBD."

The research team observed activation of stem cells and a regenerative effort in the colon and the small intestine, which increased significantly in length only in the presence of multiple cycles of the fasting-mimicking diet. They concluded that fasting primes the body for improvement, but it is the "re-feeding" that provides the opportunity to rebuild cells and tissues.

"It is really remarkable, that in the past 100 years of research into calorie restriction, no one recognized the importance of the re-feeding," Longo said. "Restriction is like a demolition where you take the building down. But you have to rebuild it. If you don't do that, there's no benefit. You are left with an empty lot, and what have you achieved?"

In the current and previous studies, the authors showed that in patients with elevated C-reactive protein (CRP), a marker for inflammation, fasting-mimicking diet cycles are able to reduce CRP and reverse the associated increase in white blood cells. Together with the results in mice, these data indicate that fasting-mimicking diet cycles have the potential to be effective against human IBD, including Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis.

IBD afflicts an estimated 1.6 million Americans and is associated with acute and chronic inflammation of the intestine. Study authors say a randomized clinical trial involving the use of fasting-mimicking diet cycles to treat IBD is necessary to determine the safety and efficacy of these dietary treatments in humans, and are currently finalizing a clinical trial protocol.





Blah blah blah plants--okay, Longo. I'll believe you that plant based matters a whit to a fasting mimicking diet the day you start including groups eating the same macros, but with animal based foods. My suspicion is there won't be much of a difference, what matters here is minimalizing the difference from a fasted metabolism. Which is why I always believe there is such a thing as a "little bit fasted," or at least a minimally fed state.

Interesting information on a total fast versus a partial fast, here. One important thing here--48 hours is a long fast for a mouse, starvation is a matter of days, versus months for a human.

But still--fasting's effect isn't dependent on its purity, or its totality. Probably depends on the effect you're hoping for.

Improved healing/tissue repair is a repeating theme with intermittent fasting, rats given unnecessary heart surgery healed faster when fasted every other day. Being brought to near starvation is very different from stimulating growth hormone, improving stem cell populations etc. with milder fasting, trying to heal while recovering from frank starvation, obviously isn't going to improve things.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Mar-07-19, 14:10
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...90306171247.htm




Blah blah blah plants--okay, Longo. I'll believe you that plant based matters a whit to a fasting mimicking diet the day you start including groups eating the same macros, but with animal based foods. My suspicion is there won't be much of a difference, what matters here is minimalizing the difference from a fasted metabolism. Which is why I always believe there is such a thing as a "little bit fasted," or at least a minimally fed state.

Interesting information on a total fast versus a partial fast, here. One important thing here--48 hours is a long fast for a mouse, starvation is a matter of days, versus months for a human.

But still--fasting's effect isn't dependent on its purity, or its totality. Probably depends on the effect you're hoping for.

Improved healing/tissue repair is a repeating theme with intermittent fasting, rats given unnecessary heart surgery healed faster when fasted every other day. Being brought to near starvation is very different from stimulating growth hormone, improving stem cell populations etc. with milder fasting, trying to heal while recovering from frank starvation, obviously isn't going to improve things.

Love the emphasis on plant-based. Let's all sing Kumbaya and feel good about ourselves because we're plant-based . . . Mouse studies in this topic make me very suspicious, as according to those who know, a mouse can eat 90% fat and still not be in ketosis. My meat/fat-based VLC approach has resulted in very low inflammation with hsCRP results of 0.4 with anything 1.0 and below indicating very little inflammation. So I agree, let's compare inflammation in humans with a control group and two groups following a VLC with water IFs and FMD with a crossover after a period of time. That would be revealing. In addition, I believe that the fast-mimicking diet is planned to be available for a fee. Based on the quotes always accompanying this approach, it reads like a sales pitch for a product, not a WOL.
From Longo:
Quote:
"Fasting is hard to stick to and it can be dangerous," Longo said. "We know that the fasting-mimicking diet is safer and easier than water-only fasting, but the big surprise from this study is that if you replace the fasting-mimicking diet, which includes pre-biotic ingredients, with water, we don't see the same benefits."
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-07-19, 14:27
dcc0455 dcc0455 is offline
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[QUOTE=teaser

Blah blah blah plants--okay, Longo. I'll believe you that plant based matters a whit to a fasting mimicking diet the day you start including groups eating the same macros, but with animal based foods. [/QUOTE]

I'm no expert, but I think I have heard him say that it is the protein that inhibits the benefits. His protocol is 45% carbs, 44% fat & 9% protein. A low carb version of that would basically be a 5 day fat fast.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Mar-07-19, 15:14
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DancinGurl DancinGurl is offline
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looks like dcc answered the question I was about to ask: Could the Atkins Fat Fast be considered a different type of Fasting Mimicking Diet? No fee required. Dr. Atkins’ patients who were metabolically resistant to losing weight were able to drop pounds on 3 to 5 days of a Fat Fast that was 1000 calories per day and 90% fat. Dr. Atkins believed the Fat Fast to be at least as effective as a “pure” water-only fast, without reported side-effects.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Mar-07-19, 16:43
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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Bikman is currently studying eating/not eating approaches in humans with the necessary control, keto, and IF group comparison. That's good news and gets us away from applying knowledge to humans from a mouse-model.
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