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  #16   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 03:49
s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
Posts: 1,181
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
If you want a general overview of the Metabolic Theory of Cancer, but still a whole book, highly recommend Tripping Over the Truth. https://www.chelseagreen.com/produc...over-the-truth/
Today will be the third day reading Tripping Over the Truth and I'm more than half way through. Fascinating history of cancer and the smt (somatic mutation theory). It just started in on ketones and ketosis and ketogenic diets. A page turner! Thank you Janet for the recommendation!





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  #17   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 04:03
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,155
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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back. Like Big, Fat Surprise, I should re-read that one.
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  #18   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 10:45
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,633
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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I read that a lot of the high fiber foods are also the high carb foods like beans, corn tortillas/chips, cream of wheat, Oatmeal etc...
I am pro veggie but also anti fiber. In other words I eat low fiber veggies like zucchini, yellow squash, very tender green beans and some others without woody fiber parts

I always remember Weight Watchers when they first went super high fiber back in the 80s. I think they wanted people to eat around 30g and even though that was the newest and best advise of the day, something in me head kept telling me that there is something wrong with having to add (recommended) husks to reach that goal.

Then I started thinking about how they were recommending everything we eat should be whole grain with more husks, brown rice with husks, whole corn with husks, beans with husks. Also in that time people lost the art of processing the food in a way that it can be digested. Corn with a gristmill in the south, tomatoes and peppers parboiled or roasted, skin peeled and seeds removed and there are so many other methods we use to prepare foods for human consumption...maybe they knew something we didn't know anymore?

Plus, the experts were telling us we were doing it all wrong!
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  #19   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 20:04
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,092
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Meme, IMHO, we are supposted to be eating the vegies, and getting the fiber that goes with the food.

The soluable fibers that feed the bacteria and other GI microbes makes total sense. The non-soluable parts like bran and hulls--- make for a good lc bread like substitute. But I am no longer convinced that this is the fiber that is necessary. Maybe some, but not at 30 g a day. Eating bran for brans sake misses the mark IMO. Getting the insoluable that is along for the ride is ok-- in jicama, rind of kiwi, stems of the spinach, that sort of thing.

The benefits of the peeling tomatos and removal of seeds....Im too lazy for that. But I do peel my eggplants-- it is TOUGH. Cant see a way to remove the seeds though. ANd tomatillos..... remove husk, wash and chop, seeds and all.

Nothing that is peeled is wasted here. CHIckens, and compost are priceless

I dont look to the experts much anymore on this. I look at what the wild animals eat. Birds eat the seeds. MOnkeys dont eat seeds, they will eat fruit, but seem to toss the peel and the seeds. Horses eat grasses, humans feed them grain. You get the idea....
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  #20   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 22:37
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,633
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Oh and the biggest farce was when they convinced people that potato skins are an edible appetizer, something they use to feed hogs
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  #21   ^
Old Sat, Sep-29-18, 23:10
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,633
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Here is a thread from a few years back talking about fiber's ill effects and the book I just ordered and read called Fiber Menace.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...65&page=1&pp=15

Quote:
Originally Posted by VersatileD
Soluble fibers absorb water like a sponge and end up making stools so bulky that they'll be hard to pass through the anus (have you noticed how small it is compared to a bulky stool?). They are considered more dangerous than insoluble fiber if taken constantly. Insoluble, by the way, just usually ends up sticking to the gut like cement, and has a more conspicuous approach.

To get a better idea of how fiber works you can check out this site: http://www.gutsense.org/fibermenace/fm_chapter1.html
(and I know this site has been pointed out before)
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 06:43
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,092
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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I have looked at that site a couple times, and when I apply my limited knowledge much of this information is off base. Realize , for other readers, that I studied animal science, which is primarily the feeding of livestock, and have raised sheep and horses for some 30 years.

I cant see how 6 cups of vegies a day causes a problem. I suspect if there is a problem, it is caused by lack of the right microbes to break down the fibers. ALso I tend to have more issues (constipation) with an all meat diet than a mixed diet. Otherwise, as I remember, too much ground flax, or too much bran, would cause constipation too. My takeaway is that a small amount of grd flax or bran seems to be ok, and lots of fiber both soluble and insoluble contained within whole foods is the way to go.

And as with livestock, small changes to the diet over a 2 week transition would be prudent. Just like with livestock.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sun, Sep-30-18 at 06:56.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 07:43
s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
Posts: 1,181
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Finished Travis Christofferson's 2014 book Tripping Over the Truth: The Metabolic Theory of Cancer, and started Siddhartha Mukherjee's 2010 book The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer. Tripping Over the Truth is excellent - highly recommend this.

I'd like to read an update on Travis Christofferson's book, to see where things stand after where he left off in 2014.

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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 08:00
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,092
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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put these on my reading list.

Does Christofferson have a follow up book in the works??

Much of my irritation, sadness, anger stems from the seemingly purposeful ignorance of oncologists.

Last summer (2017) my mother was super happy to be part of an experiemntal treatment to shrink bresast cancer cell..... and it was successful. BUT then she had chemo and radiation...... [thud]

I had tried a couple times to have her look at other options but she is old school, and doctors are king. Goodness knows she has always had her schedule FILLED with doctors appointments my whole life. All my efforts fell on deaf ears.

The surgeons are radical in their effort to excise any lymph node that "looks" iffy--- and later they are evaluated. In my mothers first surgery, they removed a handful of nodes,and she now has problems with drainage in that arm. Only a couple of the nodes were actually " infected" , not the majority.



We seriously need to get cancer under control.
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 08:20
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,155
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Updates on Travis Christopherson of which I am aware:

Website Single Cause, Single Cure is now called:

https://www.foundationformetaboliccancertherapies.com

The book is in its second edition, and there was a Nov 2017 Conference :


2nd Edition Feb 2, 2017.


Nov 2017 conference. Tripping Over the Truth; Nourishing your body while Starving Cancer to Death. 38 speakers, held in Baltimore.
https://trippingoverthetruth.org

Info, websites etc on the speakers.
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 08:36
s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
Posts: 1,181
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Updates on Travis Christopherson of which I am aware:

Website Single Cause, Single Cure is now called:

https://www.foundationformetaboliccancertherapies.com

The book is in its second edition, and there was a Nov 2017 Conference :


2nd Edition Feb 2, 2017.


Nov 2017 conference. Tripping Over the Truth; Nourishing your body while Starving Cancer to Death. 38 speakers, held in Baltimore.
https://trippingoverthetruth.org

Info, websites etc on the speakers.
Thank you Janet!

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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 10:22
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,633
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I have looked at that site a couple times, and when I apply my limited knowledge much of this information is off base. Realize , for other readers, that I studied animal science, which is primarily the feeding of livestock, and have raised sheep and horses for some 30 years.

I cant see how 6 cups of vegies a day causes a problem. I suspect if there is a problem, it is caused by lack of the right microbes to break down the fibers. ALso I tend to have more issues (constipation) with an all meat diet than a mixed diet. Otherwise, as I remember, too much ground flax, or too much bran, would cause constipation too. My takeaway is that a small amount of grd flax or bran seems to be ok, and lots of fiber both soluble and insoluble contained within whole foods is the way to go.

And as with livestock, small changes to the diet over a 2 week transition would be prudent. Just like with livestock.



Ariel, it's not the vegetable but the fiber. We are not ruminants, we don't have that type of digestive system. I don't eat an all meat diet, just low fiber diet and there is no huge change in diet, I just do a better job of picking and choosing certain veggies verses others and as the book says, a lot of the fiber is in high carb foods (whole grain).

Remember a couple of days ago when you wrote about the carbs you had eaten. The fiber alone can make you gain 3-4 lbs overnight because the fiber absorbs and holds so much water. My bloated stomach went down now and overnight I lost 3-4 lbs overnight. the best part for me, it's not playing havoc with my Colon because I can't risk Colon Cancer.

His book is a real eye opener for me. It is much more than the web-site. On Amazon, the reviews by people who said this diet has saved their lives is very interesting to read.

~also enzymes are not breaking down the fiber, we don't digest it at all, it passes right through and in fact before that happens it sits in the Colon and ferments the bad bacteria that can cause Cancer.

Reading back IDK what raising livestock has to do with the human digestive system. I have raised cattle and horses for 50 years and I would be dead in a couple of weeks if I ate what they do.

Last edited by Meme#1 : Sun, Sep-30-18 at 10:37.
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 19:58
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,092
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Just getting started

Without question the metabolic therapeutic approaches explored so far have exhibited tremendous promise with minimal side-effects. The first and most obvious place to start is by implementing a ketogenic diet, starving the cancer cells of the glucose they so heavily rely on for survival. The preclinical results have been remarkably consistent. In virtually every experiment in which the ketogenic diet has been tested in mice, tumor growth rates have slowed. The results of the diet stand alone, but the results get really exciting when the diet is utilized in addition to other therapies. Preclinical evidence has shown that the ketogenic diet is able to put cancer cells under significant metabolic stress allowing addition therapies, like standard-of-care chemotherapy, radiation, and hyperbaric-oxygen to push the cells over the edge, increasing their efficacy exponentially. And this is just scratching the surface. So much remains to be done.


https://www.foundationformetabolicc...ancer-therapies
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  #29   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 20:06
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,092
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Meme, I think somewhere we are disconnecting. Im NOT for eating roughage like a horse or sheep. I was trying to say eat the medium-low fiber vegies and plenty of them.

IMO eat the good vegies like green beans, asapragus, artichokes, summer squash, brussel sprouts, etc. Yams and pumpkin/winter squash and potatoes in moderation.

I am high risk for colon cancer, too. Onee GI doc highly recommended consyl-brand fiber. Basically bran fiber. I think he is off base--- and he drinks it with OJ.

I dont eat bran like I used to. But I do think there is enough soluable and insoluable fiber in the above vegies to feed the important microbes.Bought kefir and yogurt and jicama and artichokes today to feed those good bugs.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sun, Sep-30-18 at 20:18.
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Sep-30-18, 20:07
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Posts: 4,058
 
Plan: Keto+IF
Stats: 170/140/140 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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In 1961 doctor's told my mother that she had something they called lympho carcinoma. At least, that's what my 16-year-old brain remembered it to be. She underwent chemo and radiation therapy, went into remission and lived to just a few months short of 90.

In her later years when she told doctors she had her disease, they said it must have been a misdiagnosis because that cancer was fatal.

I have a new PCP who told me not to worry about the fact that I make too many red blood cells (and have for several years.) Since I have no diseases, she tells me that is just my "normal." We will check my ferritin levels.

Made me think that maybe my mother also made too many red blood cells, that it's genetic. Maybe she didn't have cancer at all.
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