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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 16:35
TyLe_RoAd TyLe_RoAd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: Non-specific
Stats: 234/145/120 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Default Moderately low carb diets?

I have to admit at this point that the ketogenic diet simply isn't for me, I fell off the wagon and felt so much better afterwards. I had much more energy, my raging appetite vanished, my mood drastically improved, I slept better, I stopped feeling weak and trembly, and oddly enough, I stopped feeling ice cold all the time.

However, I'm having trouble figuring out my new meal plan. If I don't eat enough carbs I wind up in a truly nasty permanent low carb flu state, but I'm having a really hard time figuring out exactly how many carbs I need to eat to avoid it.

So, first off, is there a minimum amount of carbs you need to eat if you're inactive and not in ketosis? Every time I try to look that up I always seem to wind up finding the 'eat low carb and you'll DIE' web-sites that say you need something like 125 carbs per day just to survive . . .

Also, is there a way of eating that forbids grains, but allows everything else, namely dairy and peanuts? It'd be nice if I could look up my way of eating and get some ideas on how to eat enough carbs to avoid getting sick!
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 16:54
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,131
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Low carb has many meanings--- from zero to 100 carbs a day.

Could you set a limit you think would work and trial it??? SKip the grains if that is your preference, you can eat lots of good vegies , meats and good fats.

Have you read Atkins?? He starts everyone at 20 carbs a day for 2 weeks, then bump up to 25 carbs.

How long did you try the keto??

A journal listing everything is a better way to get help and assistance as we can seee your foods and amounts.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 17:32
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,081
 
Plan: LC RPAH/FailSafe
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
Default

Hi, TyleRoad.

Here is the profile for the Schwarzbein plan:
http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...-principle.html

and here is Protein Power:
http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...tein-power.html

Or you could do Atkins in reverse. Just start at the Maintenance level. That might be enough, or work back one rung:
http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...tkins-diet.html

Here is Dr. Benjamin Sandler's diet, from 1948, to prevent polio:
http://whale.to/v/sandler7.html

Here is Dr. Richard Mackarness', Eat Fat and Grow Slim:
http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...mackarness.html

and Dr. Mackarnass' book:http://www.ourcivilisation.com/fat/

Here is Dr. Kurt Harris':
https://web.archive.org/web/2011022...80/get-started/

I combined Dr. Mackarness' plan with Dr. Harris' recommendations, and that worked really well for me.

Here is a sample day's food recommendations from Dr. Mackarness:
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/fat/appc.htm

You can always write your own, too.

All best wishes to you.

Last edited by SilverEm : Mon, Jul-16-18 at 17:49.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 20:53
TyLe_RoAd TyLe_RoAd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: Non-specific
Stats: 234/145/120 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Default

~Ms Arielle -- that's what I've been doing, eating more carbs and seeing how I handle them. The problem is that with my fatigue issues I can't tell if I feel lousy because I need more carbs or if it's because of my underlying issues. When I don't really improve after eating more carbs it's so easy to think that's because I'm not eating enough carbs yet! I feel awesome on my cheat days but I don't know how to get the same effect without one.

I was eating even fewer carbs than the Atkins diet allows during my final stab at the ketogenic diet and I felt just awful. My first try I stayed below 50 grams of carbs and couldn't function at all, so I do know I need to get more than that.

Altogether I think I was on the ketogenic diet for about eight months. The longest I stayed on it at a time without a single cheat day was around two months. I did feel a change when I was in ketosis but not the fabulous results everyone talks about.

Do you mean you want my meal plan? It's pretty simple.

Breakfast: a smoothie (1 cup milk alternative, almond milk right now, 1/2 frozen banana, 1 tbsp each of flax seed, cocoa powder, peanut butter, and maple syrup, though I'm going to ditch the peanut butter since it doesn't satisfy me) with a bowl of clam chowder. (Last batch was split into 12 portions, it had 3 lbs potatoes, 6 cans of clams, 800ml canned coconut milk, 1 liter chicken broth, 1/2 bag bacon bits. The next batch is going to have 2 lbs of potatoes and 1 liter of cream, too many taters and not enough "broth"!)

Lunch: 2 hard boiled eggs and cheddar cheese, 1 cup of blueberries. I'm going to go back to eating trail mix once I finish off those evil eggs, that was a mixture of peanuts, plain shredded coconut, craisins, and chocolate covered coffee beans, I think I'll be replacing the latter with freeze dried strawberries though.

Dinner: they all have the same formula, 3 lbs of marinated meat (chicken thighs, ground beef, or salmon) with 3 bags frozen vegetables, and another smoothie.

If I need a snack I'll have a single piece of Lindor's 70% mint chocolates. I seem to average two pieces a day unless it was a busy day, then all bets are off.

~SilverEm -- wow, thank you for all of the links! That's a lot of interesting reading. The Schwarzbein Principle actually sounds pretty much like I'm aiming for here, I'll have to do some homework on it.

I hadn't read much about the Atkins diet because I think it's stupid to change your way of eating when you stop losing weight, you'll just gain it back! Plus I get so sick when I don't eat enough carbs that I wouldn't be able to safely do the carb reintroduction phase. But then again that's exactly what I'm doing right now, I just took a flying leap over my danger zone. I had no idea that you could go up to 100 carbs on it, maybe I should take a closer look at it too.

Well I already have written my own meal plan, but at the same time that doesn't help me figure out how many carbs to eat! I slapped fruit and potatoes into my ketogenic meal plan and called it good, but it needs some fine tuning still. I want to get to a point where I don't need to snack anymore. Atkins and The Schwarzbein Principle sound very similar, sounds like either one might well apply to my current meal plan, I should take a closer look at their carb guidelines.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 21:16
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,131
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Based on the 3 meals listed--how many carbs do you calculate for a day??
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jul-16-18, 21:26
TyLe_RoAd TyLe_RoAd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: Non-specific
Stats: 234/145/120 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Default

I figure the smoothies added about 60 carbs (admittedly the maple syrup is probably overkill but I want to use it up before it goes bad) and the potatoes in my soup add about another 15. My meal plan was about 15 carbs before I made any changes, and factoring in the chocolate, I'm probably right around 100? When I use up the maple syrup it'll drop by about 25 carbs, but if I need those carbs that won't be a good thing . . .
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jul-17-18, 08:46
LizardQuee LizardQuee is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 47
 
Plan: semi-lowcarb
Stats: 242/199/170 Female 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 60%
Default

I had this problem - hard-core keto stopped working for me (probably due to increased cortisol), I felt like crap, and I had to add some carbs back in.
I wasnt satiated with too little carbs either no matter how much I upped the fat, and then I started GAINING since I was eating so many calories.
I was low carb and in and of keto for a VERY long time and I think it probably wasnt good for me.

What is working for me now is this:
.7 g - 1 g protein per lb of lean body mass (for me 90-100 g)
12 g UNREFINED starchy carbs at each meal (sweet potatos, brown rice, carrots, beets)
6 g UNREFINED starchy carbs at each snack (2 max, usually 1).
Not much added fat but not going insane trying to avoid it either. splash of heavy cream in coffee or small amt of butter or olive oil per meal has been fine. I also use a normal amt of salad dressing. I also have cream cheese on a few rice crackers as a snack sometime.
Calorie counting to max calories of 1500/day.
No sugar, especially liquid sugar (I'm lookin' at you, maple syrup LOL. Maybe you can freeze it?)
Not much alcohol, glass of wine once every 3 weeks or so.

I'm not counting the carbs in green vegetables like lettuce or broccoli or green beans so the total count of net carbs is probably around 60-80/day when you factor those in.

I feel better, the weight started coming off again, and I'm down 43 lbs since February. I hit Onederland yesterday but am back up a lb today grrrr.

Also you need exercise, being completely sedentary probably wont work with this. I found that I exercised better once I started adding carbs back in and now I'm up to easily walking 3 miles a day.

Add a little sweet potato to each meal (1/2 cup max) or 1/4 cup of brown rice and see how it goes then adjust up or down from there.
Also I think you have to lower the fat as you up the carbs or else it screws things up.

I also cant eat carbs by themselves as I get hypoglycemic so I have to have them only with protein and fat.

Honestly, when it worked on me before 10 years ago keto was easier as I didnt have to measure portions and count calories but I'm older now and things have apparently changed.

Good luck!
LQ

Last edited by LizardQuee : Tue, Jul-17-18 at 08:59.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jul-17-18, 10:03
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,131
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyLe_RoAd
I figure the smoothies added about 60 carbs (admittedly the maple syrup is probably overkill but I want to use it up before it goes bad) and the potatoes in my soup add about another 15. My meal plan was about 15 carbs before I made any changes, and factoring in the chocolate, I'm probably right around 100? When I use up the maple syrup it'll drop by about 25 carbs, but if I need those carbs that won't be a good thing . . .



Maple syrup doesnt go bad. We store it for 10 years or more.--unopened. Opened it will store for YEARS, yes it grows a pinky tan mold but that is harmless mold.

I suspect your carb levels are too high and create your cravings for more. The higher the count in the morning sets up the body for difficulties as the day progresses.

GOod luck, I hope your find the answer you are looking for.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jul-17-18, 16:40
TyLe_RoAd TyLe_RoAd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: Non-specific
Stats: 234/145/120 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Default

~LizardQuee -- oh my god, you sound like my low carb twin sister!! That's exactly what happened to me too, I could eat cheese and fat bombs until I puked from overeating and still feel like I was going to faint I was so hungry, it was awful. Plus I was piling on weight too. At least I'm not alone.

I might not be too far off from the protein goal, I'm not sure I can afford to really buy more but I can try for it I suppose!

I've stopped piling fat into my meals, it never seemed to satisfy me. Maybe it's because I don't have a gallbladder anymore, but I tried supplements and it still didn't really satisfy me!

The maple syrup flask is just about empty and I cook in bulk, so freezer space is really at a premium, I might as well finish it. I was using it to see how I felt with more carbs in my system, it's certainly not going to be a permanent addition.

But what do you think about stuff like alternative milk that has sugar added to it to make it more like dairy milk? Technically that's added sugar but it'd be really hard to hit my carb target without it.

I don't drink at all, can't afford it, calorie or money wise!

Hovering right on the edge of Onederland really is brutal isn't it?! I hope you're able to become a permanent resident soon! Of course there's always something to fret about, right now I'm hovering too freaking close to being obese again for comfort.

Unfortunately exercise does much more harm than good for me. I have chronic fatigue syndrome and whenever I do something that requires extra energy it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. The extra work drains the energy reserves that were meant to get me through the next few days, and I'll be wiped out and flat on my back for 5 - 10 days, depending on how much I overdid it. One time I decided to try doing pushups and did five against a wall instead of on the floor, and even that set me off.

What about regular potatoes, like russet or red? I can't stand sweet potatoes, or brown rice for that matter, I never succeeded in making it palatable. I've been sticking with fruit, but I'm not really getting the results I want. It could just because I'm so sick already, I'm expecting too much of an improvement. I am way better than I was on keto but it'd be nice if I could feel the way I do on cheat days!!

I seem to do a lot better when I mix my foods too. Chocolate seems like the only snack that's really likely to satisfy me, maybe because there's carbs and fat in it? If I try to snack on something that's only protein, fat, or carbs, it doesn't seem to register.

I can't say keto ever really worked for me! I started feeling ravenous after a while and then stayed that way the whole time I was on it. I think I'm really sensitive to my blood sugar levels, I don't know if I was genuinely hypoglycemic on keto but it sure felt like it. Keto's hard enough without the knowledge that your hunger would go away if you could just have a piece of fruit . . .

Thanks, I could use some!

~Ms Arielle -- the bottle that I got came from someone's house and was already opened, I have no idea for how long, just that it was stored on the counter. I really would rather not take any chances with it. It's almost empty anyway, I'll behave once it's gone!

I don't know that I'm really craving carbs per say? It's more that I feel crummy and wonder if more carbs would give me a boost. I've had my blood sugar get completely out of control on a higher carb diet before, but this isn't that. It's just a low grade 'can't I do a little better than this?' type of feeling.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jul-24-18, 20:18
barb712's Avatar
barb712 barb712 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,123
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 240/201/205 Female 180
BF:
Progress: 111%
Default

Ketosis has the same effect on me. I feel awful lately after a year and a half on Atkins. I've been battling dehydration and lethargy and hunger and musculoskeletal aches and pains. It doesn't feel natural guzzling water and licking salt and having to keep a constant vigil on my electrolyte intake. This past week or so I've been experimenting with adding rice, potato, carrots and peas into my diet to boost my daily carb level. It's a balancing act, I'm watching the scale, but I feel so much better! I'll find that sweet spot. I guess what I'm doing is what Dr. Atkins intended for his diet followers, "climbing the ladder."

Last edited by barb712 : Tue, Jul-24-18 at 20:29.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jul-26-18, 15:57
TyLe_RoAd TyLe_RoAd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: Non-specific
Stats: 234/145/120 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Default

Yeah, I never managed to drink enough water. If I drank too much I got really sick, nauseated with a brutal headache, but even then my skin was so freaking dry, I was piling on creams and lip balms trying to stop the itching, otherwise I'd scratch until I bled. It's a lot better now that I'm eating carbs again.

I hope you keep improving! It's been interesting tinkering with my diet, I feel *so* much better having bananas in my smoothies instead of blueberries, I have way more energy. My eggs and cheese meal was starting to just make me hungrier, but when I had my first helping of trail mix yesterday it almost completely hit the spot! Was a little hungry to be fair, but it was nothing I couldn't ignore. Can't wait to see how I feel when I switch back to soy milk.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-18, 04:25
Maria527's Avatar
Maria527 Maria527 is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: 2017/Dukan
Stats: 139/126/118 Female 64
BF:
Progress: 62%
Location: North Carolina, USA
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I didn't read all of the responses, but I wanted to throw in The Primal Blueprint, by Mark Sisson as a plan that is low carb, allows dairy, but no grains. He recommends 50 to 100 carbs per day.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-18, 11:16
barb712's Avatar
barb712 barb712 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,123
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 240/201/205 Female 180
BF:
Progress: 111%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria527
I didn't read all of the responses, but I wanted to throw in The Primal Blueprint, by Mark Sisson as a plan that is low carb, allows dairy, but no grains. He recommends 50 to 100 carbs per day.


I love Mark Sisson and The Primal Blueprint. I read his book, followed his blog and ate primal-ish for two years. I maintained my weight naturally and felt great doing it. Problem is I never lost much weight, maybe seven pounds, and then that was it. He can get a little loosey-goosey about food choices and quantities, he leaves a lot of that up to his followers, so it's important to pay careful attention and be honest with yourself about what works for and what doesn't, same as with other WOEs.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-18, 13:35
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,154
 
Plan: Eat less, less often
Stats: 235/203/191 Female 66
BF:Hi wt: 276,255,235
Progress: 73%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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There's also The Perfect Health Diet, by Paul Jaminet.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/

I read the book; very sciency. It's been a while, but I remember him saying that while starch might not be necessary, it is optimal for health. That's how I feel about it, that I feel better when I eat some starch.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Aug-08-18, 07:25
barb712's Avatar
barb712 barb712 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,123
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 240/201/205 Female 180
BF:
Progress: 111%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLx
There's also The Perfect Health Diet, by Paul Jaminet.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/

Me too. I read the book; very sciency. It's been a while, but I remember him saying that while starch might not be necessary, it is optimal for health. That's how I feel about it, that I feel better when I eat some starch.


I read up on the Perfect Health Diet, too. It's pretty much primal/paleo plus resistant starch - cooked and cooled white rice, potatoes - almost too good to be true! I'm a bit carb phobic from being on Atkins so long but know I thrive on these things. I will see some water weight come on at first but am working up the nerve to give myself a higher weight fluctuation allowance for a while to see if my body self-regulates.
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