-I know you directed your question towards Dan, but, I'll give you my 2 cents even though you didn't ask for it . T3 levels are compromised when one is on a diet for a elongated period of time. Your body thinks you're starving and consequently slows your metabolism/T3 levels. This is often the reason any diet quickly reaches a 'plateau'. The CKD combats this problem by the overloading of carbohydrates and calories during the carb-up. To sum it up- before your body starts to REALLY slow your metabolism, T3 levels, etc. . The carb-up 'jump-starts' everything right back up to par.

Yeah ... what that guy said ... LOL

Thanks Zeus. You nailed it.

Thank you, you guys are great!!
I appreciate all of the great information you post.

Meg

The biggest problem with a TKD is that pre work out carbs can actualy blunt the production of growth hormone. No growth hormone= no muscle and less fat loss..

-Ok, rather than arguing with you- I'm going to ask you something. Say- I don't want to do a 'CKD' (for various reasons). Yet, I still want to reap the benefits of a ketogenic diet. What should I do? Not consume carbohydrates AT ALL and still try to train intensely with weights (which would be virtually impossible as time goes on).

You could possibly try carbing up after weight training. This type of format was written about in a mag called testerone. The diet plan is called T-Dawg diet. Mybe you can find it. Let me know if you cant, I have it somewhere. I have expiramented with this type of diet in the past . The results are ok for fat loss, But a purfectly executed CKD blows it away. If you do try it you should try to train no more than every othr day.

-I'm familiar with the 'T-Dawg' diet. However, I think 'Testosterone.net' is full of a bunch of crappy articles along with a crappy supplement line. As for a 'perfectly executed CKD'...that's easier said than done. Anyways, since you seem to be a 'CKD connoisseur' - what does your 'carb-up' look like? I'm very curious- the 'carb-up' is one of the reasons I dropped the 'CKD' as I always ended up blowing it and basically eating way too much junk-food (once I get my hands on carbohydrates; forget about it).

P.S. - If I was going to 'carb-up' after each workout; could you define "carb-up"? Would I just be consuming one big carb-meal post-workout or what?

I agree that testerone is pretty useless but you asked for an alternative.
As for my carb ups ...
THey start with liquid glucose polymers + whey (meals 1-4
Next its toasted oats cereal+ skim milk + whey(meals 5-8)
Then 7oz potatoe + 3oz chic (meals 9-12)
Then 12-13oz potatoe + 3oz chic. (meals 13-16)
Then 9-10oz potatoe + chic. (meals 14-17)
lastly, 3 servings of carbo powder + whey.(18-20)

I sometimes sub. potatoes for rice or pasta or a bagel or two.
Don't get me wrong, I still through in a cheat meal once n awhile.
And yes I do sometimes eat around the clock when I get crazy.
, but thats a real pain in the ass.

I'm still going to stick with the 'TKD'. I'm also still convinced the 'TKD' is more effective for fat-loss compared to a 'CKD'.

I was wondering if you could gain muscle on a TKD.. or if what I am suggesting makes non ketogenic.

Say after length of time when I am satisfied with my fat loss, would I be able to eat low carb, high fat except for only before and after workouts, and if I consumed enough carbohydrates at this time, would muscle growth be possible with very minimal fat gain?

Can I gain muscle simply by following a CKD and upping my calories?

Thanks!
Meg

-It may be 'possible'- however, it is not likely.



-You can, but, this will come with a price. The price being slower gains in muscle mass (however, you will keep fat gain to a minimum). Otherwise- you should follow a diet higher in carbohydrates (you will gain more muscle-mass this way but- consequently, you will put on some fat). You pick.

Meg - I'm not AT ALL an expert in this, but there is one exception that the guys might be overlooking and that's the newbie bonus. People in an untrained state - i.e newbies, esp high BF newbies - we CAN add muscle on a CKD, and we CAN add muscle and lose fat at the same time. It happened to Nat and it happened to me. Eventually, you will have to choose between adding muscle and losing fat and adjust your program accordingly. Nat is there now, but I'm still doing both. So far in my first run of CKD, I've GAINED 12-15 lbs of muscle while LOSING 20-22 lbs of fat. It won't go on forever, but if you've never weight trained, and if you still have some fat to lose, you can probably do both on your first CKD.

Cheers,

Friday

Gonna have to disagree with ya. Nearly 20 lbs. of fat loss and a 2 -3 lb. lean mass gain (so far ... not done yet) in a HIGHLY trained individual over the course of 12 weeks is nothing to scoff at.

I'll take the CKD any day, hands down.

-No, it isn't anything to 'scoff' at. That's incredible and I commend you. However, I always screw up the 'carb-up''s (as I'm sure many other people do). I'd gladly switch over to a 'CKD' if you could outline the 'perfect' 'carb-up' for me (meal by meal- hour by hour). Otherwise- I'm likely to mess up the 'carb-up' and end up with lovely 'fat-spillover'. With the elimination of the chance of 'fat-spillover'- I think the 'TKD' is more effective for fat-loss (unless, as mentioned before- I had everything on 'paper').

Zeus,
Perhaps the TKD works for you but for the people like Dan and myself and everyone else I know that does a CKD, that works for them. I don't think one is more effective than the other at fat loss. The TKD may be more effective for you but the CKD more effective for others who can control the carb-up.

I don;'t think you can say one is more effective for fat-loss. It is definitely a personal thing and I would say it varies for individuals.