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  #16   ^
Old Wed, May-03-17, 19:10
M Levac M Levac is offline
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To be fair, I think I found a way activity can improve health. It's highly specific and pointy, but it's valid. Several years ago when I started lifting weights, I found out about HIIT and how it worked. Apparently, it causes a significant increase in number of mitochondria. The logic is simple from there. The more mitochondria, the more energy for the cell, the better the cell can maintain its integrity, the better the body's overall health.

So whatchathink?
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, May-03-17, 20:43
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Regarding mitochondria improving due to exercise? It's been a well-known fact that not only do mitochondria increase in numbers, but existing mitochondria become more efficient at energy production with regular exercise. Fully agree. This is one of the key benefits of physical activity and why it is healthy. It may not be a primary requirement for losing weight, but it helps the metabolism immensely.
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  #18   ^
Old Tue, Oct-17-17, 07:09
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teaser teaser is offline
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...71016144846.htm

Quote:
Physically active white men at high risk for plaque buildup in arteries

White men who exercise at high levels are 86 percent more likely than people who exercise at low levels to experience a buildup of plaque in the heart arteries by middle age, a new study suggests.

Led by researchers at the University of Illinois at Chicago and Kaiser Permanente, the study looked at the physical activity trajectories of 3,175 black and white participants in the multicenter, community-based, longitudinal cohort CARDIA study, and assessed the presence of coronary artery calcification, or CAC, among participants.

CAC is a clinical measure of the accumulation of calcium and plaque in the arteries of the heart. The presence and amount of CAC, is a significant warning sign to doctors that a patient may be at risk for developing heart disease and a signal to consider early preventive care.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both men and women in the U.S.

The study group consisted of CARDIA participants who self-reported physical activity during at least three of eight follow-up examinations over 25 years, from 1985 through 2011. At baseline, participants were ages 18 to 30 living in Birmingham, Alabama; Chicago; Minneapolis; and Oakland, California.

Researchers categorized participants into three distinct trajectory groups, based on physical activity patterns: trajectory group one was defined as exercising below the national guidelines (less than 150 minutes a week), group two as meeting the national guidelines for exercise (150 minutes a week), and group three was defined as exercising three-times above the national guidelines (more than 450 minutes a week).

"We expected to see that higher levels of physical activity over time would be associated with lower levels of CAC," said Deepika Laddu, assistant professor of physical therapy in the UIC College of Applied Health Sciences.

Instead, Laddu and her colleagues found that participants in trajectory group three, or those who exercised the most, were 27 percent more likely than those in trajectory group one to develop CAC by middle age. CAC was measured during the participants' 25th year in the study using computed tomography, a CT scan, of the chest. At year 25, participants were ages 43 to 55.

When these findings were stratified by race and gender, they found that white men were at the highest risk-they were 86 percent more likely to have CAC. There was no higher odds of CAC for black participants who exercised at this level, and while there was a similar trend for white women it was not statistically significant.

According to Laddu and study co-author Dr. Jamal Rana, similar population-based cohort studies on cumulate exercise dose have caused some controversy by showing U-shaped trends of association between physical activity and disease risk.

"So we performed this study to see if we can solve part of this puzzle," said Rana, a cardiologist at Kaiser Permanente in Oakland.

Unique to the new study is the evaluation of long-term exercise patterns, from young adulthood into middle age.

"Because the study results show a significantly different level of risk between black and white participants based on long-term exercise trajectories, the data provides rationale for further investigation, especially by race, into the other biological mechanisms for CAC risk in people with very high levels of physical activity," said Laddu.

"High levels of exercise over time may cause stress on the arteries leading to higher CAC," said Rana, "however this plaque buildup may well be of the more stable kind, and thus less likely to rupture and causes heart attack, which was not evaluated in this study." Rana says they plan to evaluate for outcomes, such as heart attacks and death, next.

While the study suggests that white men who exercise at high levels may have a higher burden of CAC, "it does not suggest that anyone should stop exercising," Laddu said.


That ending... if this was about sausages, nobody hesitates about telling people to stop eating sausages, with equally weak evidence. I do agree with this, just think the sausages should get the same benefit of the doubt.

Plaque buildup may be of the more stable kind. True. But if high exercise correlated with less plaque, do you think they'd have suggested that maybe it was of the more dangerous, less stable kind? Doubt it. This stable plaque, people love it, allows them to declare victory, whatever the results.
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  #19   ^
Old Tue, Oct-17-17, 08:29
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khrussva khrussva is offline
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Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
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Maybe it was all that carb loading, juicing and other such eating habits often done by health conscious athletic types. And I'm sure these guys were eating more than the average Joe. Calories in - calories out, you know. Would a white guy athletic type eating a low carb / high fat diet have the same negative results with their heart calcium score? Who knows what role diet plays in all of this? A poor diet may counteract benefits from exercise. Exercise may even contribute to the problems caused by a poor diet. I see the same possibility with people wearing out knees and hips jogging their arses off. Perhaps a better diet would not result in the same level of joint damage. I know everything does not come down to diet, but I have come to believe that diet plays a much bigger roll in overall health than most experts believe.

From a post earlier in this thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
"You can't outrun a bad diet" might be better expressed as "you can't outrun the worst diets," I think you probably can make a difference with an almost-good diet.

I tend to agree with this. Over the summer I was eating an almost good diet (LC, but higher carbs that I had been doing). I was not tracking my food intake, trying to eat to satiety. I was also doing more activity than ever over the summer. Weight crept up a pound or two. I was not too concerned. Then after my vacation in August I inexplicably stopped doing my regular walking routine. It was very hot and humid, so I wasn't doing much towards the house painting/repair project either. I became quite inactive compared to what I had been doing. To the best of my knowledge, eating was about the same. But the results on the scale were not. Over the next 5 or 6 weeks I saw a steady rise. I had to nip that in the bud. I'm back to tracking my food and getting my daily walks in. I'm now eating a good diet again and seeing positive results with the scale. I can't help but think that all that physical activity that I did over the summer had to be of some assistance keeping my weight in check while eating less than optimally.

Last edited by khrussva : Tue, Oct-17-17 at 08:41.
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Oct-17-17, 10:53
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Plaque buildup may be of the more stable kind. True. But if high exercise correlated with less plaque, do you think they'd have suggested that maybe it was of the more dangerous, less stable kind? Doubt it. This stable plaque, people love it, allows them to declare victory, whatever the results.

Right, if the results don't make sense, make something up that is plausible based on the inaccurate prevailing belief. I'd like to have them confirm the type of plaque involved, however, there's a lot more of the findings of this study that must be further investigated.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Oct-23-17, 18:40
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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The article about the Maasai barely touched on diabetes, but exercise is very important for regulating blood glucose. I knew that Dr. B. highly recommends exercise, but I was having a hard time sticking to it.

With my increasingly better diet, my bg was going down, but not as low as it should have been. It wasn't until I started exercising every day that my fasting bg went down into the 70s & 80s. I do most of my exercising in the morning before breakfast (good incentive!) & again either just before or after lunch.
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Oct-24-17, 05:03
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JLx JLx is offline
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Plan: High protein, lower fat
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Quote:
When these findings were stratified by race and gender, they found that white men were at the highest risk-they were 86 percent more likely to have CAC. There was no higher odds of CAC for black participants who exercised at this level, and while there was a similar trend for white women it was not statistically significant.


I presume black women are included in "black participants". I can't think of any possible explanation for these apparent gender and racial differences.

450 minutes averages to 64 minutes a day. I wonder if there was another subset of people being way over that, because that doesn't seem that much to me. I do that, but then I'm not working, with a family, etc. so maybe it is.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 11:55
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teaser teaser is offline
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https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...unter-gatherers

A blood pressure post got me looking for something on blood pressure in the Hadza hunter-gatherer group, I came across this and it made me think of this thread.

Quote:
Staying Fit Isn't A New Year's Resolution For These Hunter-Gatherers

After the countdown to New Year's, Americans start thinking about upping the intensity of their workouts or making room in their schedule for a boot camp.

But the men and women of the Hadza, a group of hunter-gatherers in Northern Tanzania, have no need for resolutions to be more active.

Anthropologist Herman Pontzer, an associate professor at Hunter College, and his collaborators distributed GPS units with heart rate monitors to a group of Hadza adults. The goal was to use the gadgets to pinpoint the level of physical activity in Hadza life.

What Pontzer and his collaborators reported in a study published in October in the American Journal of Human Biology is that the Hadza are moving much of the time, typically in moderate and sustained activity rather than vigorous bursts.

There's a theory that human physiology evolved through hunting and gathering to require aerobic exercise, so that's what the researchers were interested in testing. The 46 subjects — 19 male and 27 female with a mean age of 32.7 — had their heart rates tracked over four two-week periods, covering both rainy and dry seasons. This data was matched up with what the researchers have learned about the Hadza's cardiovascular health by testing 198 subjects (including 30 also in the heart-rate study). Their findings: An examination of blood pressure, cholesterol and other biomarkers shows no evidence of risk factors for cardiovascular disease.

The typical Hadza day begins at sunrise. The Hadza wake up in grass huts in the middle of the savanna and mill about while figuring out plans and eating breakfast.

Then the men set out with a bow and poison-tipped arrows, covering miles and miles to track prey, such as giraffes, impalas and zebras. "They don't run," Pontzer notes, unless, of course, "someone jumps out of the bushes at them." But they walk pretty much continuously, with just a single break at midday to avoid the worst heat. If they're striking out with hunting, Pontzer says, they might chop into trees to get wild honey.

Women go out in groups, along with children under the age of 2, who are usually wrapped up snug on mom's back. They pick berries at such a rapid clip that Pontzer admits he couldn't keep up with the pace. The tougher task is digging into the hard and rocky ground with a sharpened stick to collect tubers, which are a staple of their diet. The upper body workout can take hours, Pontzer says.

It all adds up to about 135 minutes per day of moderate-to-vigorous physical activity. Contrast that to the current recommendations from the U.S. Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion of at least 150 minutes per week.

And only about 10 percent of Americans achieve that guideline, Pontzer says.

This Hadza study is "very relevant," says Oxford University associate professor Charlie Foster, who is deputy director of the research group on Population Approaches to Non-Communicable Disease Prevention and president of the International Society for Physical Activity and Health. In a sense, he says, humans are all still hunter-gatherers. "We're good at gathering food whenever we can. We just don't have to go very far," Foster says. "Within 100 meters of your front door, you can probably buy a coffee."

And what many humans are hunting for these days is an exercise strategy that requires as little time as possible — hence, the rising popularity in the Western world of short, high-intensity interval training programs, says Foster, who was not part of the study. So one detail about the Hadza research that stands out to him is that they pretty much take the opposite approach.

Is there a way for Westerners to design an equivalent exercise to tuber digging? "Maybe if you garden aggressively," Pontzer says. But he advises against mimicking the exact patterns of Hadza lives and instead recommends thinking about what you can learn from them.

"What the Hadza study says is that you don't block out an hour. You put a bit of activity into everything you do. Forget this artificial distinction between exercise and life. Try to change things so you're doing them more actively," Pontzer says.

And keep on doing them as the years go by. One of the researchers' key findings is that the level of "moderate and vigorous physical activity" doesn't drop off as Hadza age. "You see 60- and 70-year-old men and women keeping up," Pontzer adds. "There's no sitting on a La-Z-Boy."

The same is true with Hadza kids. As soon as toddlers are old enough to skip foraging with mom, they join a mob of children who basically just run around all day, Pontzer says. Other than some limited opportunities to go to school, "a Hadza kid has never spent a day inside because there is no inside," he says.

Maybe that's another lesson to learn from the Hadza, Foster adds. When it comes to exercise, he says, "You're never too young to start."


I feel like there's a slight over-sell here. 135 minutes a day sounds like a lot of "exercise." But considering that that's over the course of a day working, it's not really that much compared to anybody with a somewhat physical job. 135 minutes a day leaves lots of time left over for more sedentary activity.

And here;

Quote:
And what many humans are hunting for these days is an exercise strategy that requires as little time as possible — hence, the rising popularity in the Western world of short, high-intensity interval training programs, says Foster, who was not part of the study. So one detail about the Hadza research that stands out to him is that they pretty much take the opposite approach.


There are suggestions that just minutes of all-out activity can show benefit. This study doesn't sound to me like it was designed to capture whether or not the Hadza engage in these sorts of short burst often enough to benefit. I don't think anybody has to check to see whether the kids do, when I was a kid most of the time I was active was sort of a lazy ramble, but sprinting to side-aching breathlessness occurred often enough. Near maximal efforts are brief, maybe easy to miss.
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 12:26
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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This is in no way scientific. Just n=1 experience.

Throughout my working life, I made certain that some of my jobs were physically demanding. I considered every day doing that like money in the bank for when I got older. I had several years of hard labor banked.

Now that I've gotten to "older" I have to share the importance of using all muscles on a regular basis. If this doesn't happen, it results in loss of range of motion and overall strength.

Example: Day before yesterday I did lap swimming for the first time in 5 years. I was stunned at my loss of ability. Additionally, every one of the muscles I used was sore for the next 24 hours.

I'm 72, healthy, and at (I guess) a normal weight due to my eating plan.

My 2 Cents.
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 12:48
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesinger
This is in no way scientific. Just n=1 experience.

Throughout my working life, I made certain that some of my jobs were physically demanding. I considered every day doing that like money in the bank for when I got older. I had several years of hard labor banked.

Now that I've gotten to "older" I have to share the importance of using all muscles on a regular basis. If this doesn't happen, it results in loss of range of motion and overall strength.

Example: Day before yesterday I did lap swimming for the first time in 5 years. I was stunned at my loss of ability. Additionally, every one of the muscles I used was sore for the next 24 hours.

I'm 72, healthy, and at (I guess) a normal weight due to my eating plan.

My 2 Cents.


That's my experience too. I need to keep up my walking schedule, especially the hill walking, if I am to maintain my strength and endurance. I hate to think of what would happen to my muscles if I returned to a sedentary life style.

Jean
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 12:56
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
That's my experience too. I need to keep up my walking schedule, especially the hill walking, if I am to maintain my strength and endurance. I hate to think of what would happen to my muscles if I returned to a sedentary life style.

Jean


I know what happened to my muscles - as well as my blood glucose. A couple weeks ago my knee went out on me. I have gradually been able to walk more, but it's still painful. My bg has gone up - daily exercise had lowered it considerably - & I feel like crap. Hopefully the MRI will show that something can be done. Or at least what kind of exercise won't make things worse.
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 13:28
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Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
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obesity is a symptom of non-nutritional optimal eating. simple as that.
obesity can be controlled easily by no carbs/sugar/whatever you deside to call 'sugar' point blank.

One does not need exercise.
As one gets healthier on no sugar does one want and can move more. More thru exericse (loose term here) and do physical things that will to fit their lifestyle. Like lifting then do it and enjoy this activity, love hiking then do it to how you want, up the mt. or a casual stroll thru a park hike, kayak more in the water,--- yes you have the energy to move as you want.

it is 1000% about the sugar in your body and how sugar destroys the physical body.

Last edited by Whirrlly : Sun, Nov-19-17 at 13:38.
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 13:46
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirrlly
obesity is a symptom of non-nutritional optimal eating. simple as that.
obesity can be controlled easily by no carbs/sugar/whatever you deside to call 'sugar' point blank.

One does not need exercise.
As one gets healthier on no sugar does one want and can move more. More thru exericse (loose term here) and do physical things that will to fit their lifestyle. Like lifting then do it and enjoy this activity, love hiking then do it to how you want, up the mt. or a casual stroll thru a park hike, kayak more in the water,--- yes you have the energy to move as you want.

it is 1000% about the sugar in your body and how sugar destroys the physical body.


If this was in response to my post, exercise does make a difference in bg readings of diabetics - & I'm diabetic.
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  #29   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 13:59
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Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
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no, response wasn't geared at you per se......but

nope. sorry but it is the carbs you are ingesting that gives your BS numbers a change.

does exercise help a body, obviously yes but it will not and never control your bs numbers. It is 100% about what you eat in a given day.
(diff in type 1 vs. type 2 of course -- there along with each person's personal med history and way more involved) but basic truth, carbs in blood stream means blood sugar swings. No sugar, no wild swings. Meat and any other zero carb type food will increase as does any food you eat will effect BS as ingested, BS but it will never give a swing of super HI or super low if no sugar is involved. It will be 'constant stable BS' in one's life if we are talking basic type 2 and can be applied easily into type 1 (with other circumstances not included as per indiv. and so much other med history etc)

Last edited by Whirrlly : Sun, Nov-19-17 at 14:17.
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 15:55
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
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Carbs may be the primary driver of blood glucose levels but exercise can also effect them. Here is what Dr Bernstein said in answer to a question:

Quote:
The question may be asking if prolonged mild exercise, like walking, is going to raise blood sugar. As a rule, this doesn’t happen. In fact, it can lower blood sugar for hours afterward. But, there may be exceptions, such as exercising shortly after arising in the morning, because of the dawn phenomenon.


Jean
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