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  #91   ^
Old Thu, Feb-23-17, 09:29
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 7,448
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/213/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 99%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
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It has been nearly a week since I added niacin, b complex, and vitamin c to my daily supplement regimen. I have been upping the niacin each day and have adjusted to it well. After that initial fairly intense flush I've only had minimal flushing since - even after increasing the amount taken. I've done more reading on it and decided to go a little higher than I originally planned (2g spread out over the day). That dose is at the level often prescribed to address cholesterol issues in patients at-risk for CVD.

From what I've read prescribing niacin was common practice since the 1950's and the only real side effect is the temporary flushing -- which is actually just a sign that the niacin is working. Statins were considered 'more effective' and sort of shoved niacin off the radar. So exactly what are statins more effective at? Lowering LDL. I that all? I don't know that I saw anything that compared niacin vs. statins in reducing the risk of CVD. So I'm still convinced that there is something not quite right when it comes to the wonder drug - statins. I think it is all about $$.

The only serious side effect that I read about involved liver issues from taking a slow release form of niacin (which I am not taking). Another side effect of niacin that occurs with about 1/3 of those who take it is increased blood glucose. I appear to be one of those 1/3. My FBG readings had been mostly in the 80 to 85 range for well over a year. Since starting niacin I'm now getting FBG in the 95 to 100 range. Last night before bed my BG was 107. Prior to taking niacin I rarely had BG readings over 100 - even after a meal.

I did a little more reading on this phenomenon last night. At one time they would take diabetics off of niacin if it raised their BG. But studies showed that the small increase in BG experienced by some resulted in no new or worsening diabetes related symptoms. So I guess it was determined that the small BG rise in some people after starting niacin treatment is really much ado about nothing.

I am/was a diabetic. Am I concerned about this small rise in BG. Not really. If it was pushing my BG into the danger zone of 140 or above, then yes - I'd be concerned. Who knows? It might even be beneficial or perhaps a sign that my cholesterol is being lowered by the niacin treatment. There might be some sort of count-balance thing between cholesterol & BG. I'll know in 3 weeks when I have my next lipid panel taken. This niacin therapy, along with the increased cardio exercise and dairy free experiment that I have been doing, should result in doctor pleasing cholesterol numbers. We shall see.

Last edited by khrussva : Thu, Feb-23-17 at 10:03.
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  #92   ^
Old Thu, Feb-23-17, 09:50
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Pleased to hear of your progress, Ken. I have read that niacin increases HGH (human growth hormone) as part of its healing power. I wonder if that increases BG for some? Perhaps the BG increases under niacin is being used up, somehow, and so does not contribute to diabetes complications the way some other mechanisms might be doing?

Thanks so much for your research and sharing with the community.

I just had an "acid test" for niacin's calming effect: finally resolved a seven month ordeal with my insurance company. And it was not in my favor. After instructing me to get my doctor to ask for a diagnostic procedure, and then telling me to go out-of-network to get it, they dragged their feet for seven months, after a ton of phone calls; they decided it wasn't medically necessary.

I have called the state's appeal process to see what might be going on, because I am utterly spent on the subject. Insurance company gave me an address for appeal; but no forms to fill out (and you know there are forms to fill out.) This is a typical ploy that I am not sure springs from hideous inefficiency or deliberate non-training. I write them, they tell me I don't have the forms, forcing me to ask for the forms, etc.

They are quite chirpy about wanting to "help" me without helping me. It takes 20 minutes on hold to even start the process; my attempts to get "better" phone numbers means they never go anywhere, my messages are never returned; I am no better off.

Somewhere there are recordings where they tell me the opposite of what they are telling me now. Doubtless this is all a plan to make me give up and go away.

But I won't. Thanks to niacin, I am even calm about plodding through the incredible mess that is the American healthcare system.

Last edited by WereBear : Thu, Feb-23-17 at 10:03.
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  #93   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 11:41
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Thoughts on the difference between water-soluble and fat-soluble vitamins.

I was having a bit of a tummy issue with my vitamin D3, so I shifted it to taking it with my lunch; and all is fine.

While I can take my niacin, B complex, and C on a empty stomach, no problem.

Probably, then, fat-soluble should be taken with fat. Simple, really, but it had not particularly occurred to me before.
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  #94   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 13:00
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is online now
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Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I tried niacin in the late 1970s, back when 50 mg pills could be found on the shelf in any pharmacy. I stopped because of the flushing & with no Internet back then, could not check out what was happening.

I found this thread and associated googling very interesting and bought some, which arrived on Friday. Since they are 500 mg and I previously had extreme flushing, I chopped one into 8 pieces, each ~63 mg, had my first dose with food, B & C vitamins and my entire body burned and flushed for about an hour.

Since I am IFing & only eat twice a day and had read that aspirin 30 minutes before niacin can reduce flushing, I tried that with my second dose and had barely noticeable flushing. I had an extremely calm feeling all over while reading a book before bed and then slept 9 straight hours! I'm retired and don't have a problem with anxiety or sleeping, but didn't know one could feel even better. ETA, Day 2, Dose 1, no aspirin, but only mild flushing (no itching, burning or tingling), so it looks like I am adapting quickly. This overall calm feeling could be addicting.

During my googling marathon, a couple of sources said to not take it with alcohol and a couple others mentioned the boost in hormone creation, which in menopause can be a good thing.

Since niacin cannot be patented, I suspect Big Pharma is behind the push to discredit it.

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Feb-26-17 at 16:01.
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  #95   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 13:39
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
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Progress: 120%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
Since niacin cannot be patented, I suspect Big Pharma is behind the push to discredit it.


Spot on!

I ran into similar things with hormones for my hellish menopause. Progestin, the patented version, had all kinds of warnings.

Progesterone, the real thing -- did wonders.
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  #96   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-17, 13:16
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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A niacin win, or just good fortune?

I woke up this morning after eight hours of sleep; excellent. I was even going to try to go back to sleep when I realized something that popped my eyes open and put me on the phone with my (*%*&^ health insurance company.

Two hours later, I had managed to explain to them how they had screwed up, and most of it (the part that would have cost me $2,550) actually got unscrewed. The rest is in process, and I'm done for the day. This was supposed to be a rest day, and instead I am hoping I am looking at the end of seven months of trying to get them to do their job.

Stupidity is the new competence.

Last edited by WereBear : Tue, Feb-28-17 at 08:51.
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  #97   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-17, 19:57
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Location: Herndon, VA
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Good news! Is it the solid eight hours that brought the realization to the forefront? Glad you're getting it sorted, regardless!
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  #98   ^
Old Tue, Feb-28-17, 08:57
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Good news! Is it the solid eight hours that brought the realization to the forefront?


I'm thinking so, and giving niacin some credit for it. Because of the way the realization came to me.

Last night: almost TEN hours. Go brain-healing, go!
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  #99   ^
Old Tue, Feb-28-17, 13:04
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
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Plan: LC/low Lactose
Stats: 304/289/130 Female 65 "
BF:
Progress: 9%
Location: PNW
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Wow, that's awesome!!!

I'm wondering if giving my daughter Niacin in the morning would help her be calm at school. Not that there has been many issues, other than one panic attack I heard about. Why do they have to make school so dang traumatic, anyway?
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  #100   ^
Old Tue, Feb-28-17, 16:46
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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It has done a lot for me on that subject.
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  #101   ^
Old Sun, Mar-05-17, 10:40
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
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Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Update: a month and a week into Niacin Therapy, and it continues to make a world of difference.
  • Carb sensitivity. In thirteen years of low carbing, I have never experienced such a strong effect: it's like I'm taking a pill called Atkinsivation. I look at things that used to be somewhat tempting, and go naaaaah. There have been a couple of times when I've been very worn out and opt for the easy (my illness meant I couldn't go into ketosis and I have some higher carb things around.) But now, I feel just awful afterwards, and my sleep gets messed up that night. Ketosis and skipping breakfast isn't just easy; I also crave arranging my meals to be as low carb and IF as possible. The positive feedback is incredible: it's like I am tuned into what is actually going on in my body depending on what I eat.
  • Good sleep. If i am behaving myself (not letting stress build up, not eating too many carbs, sticking to my sleep schedule) I sleep, at last, wonderfully. Even when I am out of town and sleeping in a room I've never been in before. Lots of depth, lots of dreams, waking up tingling all over because I'm so refreshed. The effect on my healing processes is immense. As I've gradually improved my health status, my sleep has gone from 2-4 hours to 8-10 hours a night, but it was still a bit erratic. Now, I can make that happen consistently, every night.
  • Anxiety. I never realized how much anxiety I had until it went away. I was always a bit of an over-thinker, and being so sick cranked it up to eleven, but now I do mental strategies like I'm not going to worry about that now absolutely successfully. I've never been this chilled out & confident in my entire life.
  • Resilience. For years now, I've been longing for the ability to stop "draining my reserve tanks" and actually building them up instead. This is the first time since my illness developed that I've been able to feel that this vital shift in energy handling is taking place. Something very healing is going on, with a lot of things. At least, that is the way I feel. I was sick for too long for it to turn around as quickly as I'd like (I'd like NOW please!) but it is, finally, happening at a visible rate.

This experience is turned me into a total Orthomolecular fangirl. I'm sure that niacin doesn't work this way for everyone. But I am convinced that everyone will find the subject of serious nutritional therapy well worth exploring.
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  #102   ^
Old Sun, Mar-05-17, 11:02
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is online now
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Posts: 3,983
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I look at things that used to be somewhat tempting, and go naaaaah.
I did the same thing and had no potato chips, and instead had some salt that my body seemed to need/crave. In the past I had to talk myself out of eating such temptations, but this "naaaah" came from within.
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  #103   ^
Old Sun, Mar-05-17, 12:54
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
I did the same thing and had no potato chips, and instead had some salt that my body seemed to need/crave. In the past I had to talk myself out of eating such temptations, but this "naaaah" came from within.


It's awesome! I feel that one of the reasons people never get satisfied eating junk food is not just the effect on blood sugar; it's also that they aren't getting any nutrients from this kind of food.

Good for you figuring it was salt, not chips, that your body "needed."
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  #104   ^
Old Sun, Mar-05-17, 13:44
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 3,983
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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The funny thing is that the delightful crunch is usually the main attraction of chips, but the first image that came to mind was of potato starch stuck between my teeth, requiring me to brush them again.
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  #105   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-17, 10:02
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...70308114709.htm

Bear with me, this is related, honest.

Quote:
Probiotic found in yogurt can reverse depression symptoms
Lactobacillus affects mood, anxiety in mice; researchers optimistic findings should hold true in humans

Researchers at the University of Virginia School of Medicine have reversed depression symptoms in mice by feeding them Lactobacillus, a probiotic bacteria found in live-cultures yogurt. Further, they have discovered a specific mechanism for how the bacteria affect mood, providing a direct link between the health of the gut microbiome and mental health.

Based on their findings, the researchers are optimistic that their discovery will hold true in people and are planning to confirm their findings in patients with depression.

"The big hope for this kind of research is that we won't need to bother with complex drugs and side effects when we can just play with the microbiome," explained lead researcher Alban Gaultier, PhD. "It would be magical just to change your diet, to change the bacteria you take, and fix your health -- and your mood."

Treating Depression

Depression is one of the most common mental health conditions in the United States, with up to 7 percent of people experiencing a major depressive episode, Gaultier noted. "It's a huge problem and the treatments are not very good, because they come with huge side effects," he said.

The role of the gut microbiome -- the bacteria that live inside us -- has been of tremendous interest to researchers studying depression and other health conditions, both mental and physical. Gaultier, of the UVA Department of Neuroscience and its Center for Brain Immunology and Glia, set out to see if he could find a concrete link between depression and gut health. "When you're stressed, you increase your chance of being depressed, and that's been known for a long, long time," he said. "So the question that we wanted to ask is, does the microbiome participate in depression?"

The answer appears to be yes. Looking at the composition of the gut microbiome before and after mice were subjected to stress, Gaultier's team found that the major change was the loss of Lactobacillus. With the loss of Lactobacillus came the onset of depression symptoms. Feeding the mice Lactobacillus with their food returned them to almost normal. "A single strain of Lactobacillus," Gaultier observed, "is able to influence mood."

He and his team then went on to determine the mechanism by which Lactobacillus influences depression. They found that the amount of Lactobacillus in the gut affects the level of a metabolite in the blood called kynurenine, which has been shown to drive depression. When Lactobacillus was diminished in the gut, the levels of kynurenine went up -- and depression symptoms set in.

"This is the most consistent change we've seen across different experiments and different settings we call microbiome profiles," explained researcher Ioana Marin, a graduate student who is finishing up her PhD. work. "This is a consistent change. We see Lactobacillus levels correlate directly with the behavior of these mice."

Testing in Humans

Gaultier was careful to call the symptoms seen in mice as "depressive-like behavior" or "despair behavior," as mice have no way to communicate that they are feeling depressed. But those symptoms are widely accepted as the best available model for looking at depression in creatures other than humans.

Based on the new findings, Gaultier plans to begin studying the effect in people as soon as possible. He intends to examine the effects of Lactobacillus on depression in patients with multiple sclerosis, a group in which the disorder is common. Promisingly, the same biological substances and mechanisms Lactobacillus uses to affect mood in mice are also seen in humans, suggesting the effect may be the same.

In addition to looking at the effects in people, the researchers are continuing to explore the important role of kynurenine. "There has been some work in humans and quite a bit in animal models talking about how this metabolite, kynurenine, can influence behavior," Marin said. "It's something produced with inflammation that we know is connected with depression. But the question still remains: How? How does this molecule affect the brain? What are the processes? This is the road we want to take."

While there is no harm in people with depression eating yogurt, people receiving treatment for depression should not stop taking their medications without consulting their physicians. More studies, the researchers noted, are needed.


Niacin can be synthesized from tryptophan, Wikipedia;

Quote:
The kynurenine pathway is a metabolic pathway leading to the production of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) from the degradation of the essential amino acid tryptophan.


You could see how supplemental niacin might reduce the kynurenine pathway as well, if the point of the pathway is largely to synthesize niacin.
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