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  #46   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 15:56
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
So far very interesting reading, but I'm still a tad leery since I've read so many other books and articles about other vitamins/amino acids, etc. that claim to be "the way, the truth and the life" for optimal health if taken as claimed. I've tried some of them and none have ever done squat for me, just as niacin never did in the past (again, though, no clue now what my dose was), so I'm wondering what it might do for me now.


I totally understand your skepticism.

I remember when I started having menopause troubles and would consult site after site: only to be told I should go vegan, eat lots of whole grains, and get more sleep.

Cripes! Sleep is what I was trying to get!

After a long long ordeal where conventional medical wisdom did no good at all, I got used to doing whacky things instead; and getting results
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  #47   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 16:42
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,330
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/165/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig

Around that time I finally found a holistic nurse-practitioner willing to prescribe Armour, and in one month my total cholesterol (290+ for a few years at that point) dropped to 191 within 4 weeks - with HDL, LDL, trigs all good. At that point I stopped the niacin, having developed some vague fears of it - I think now due to reading about the trials of extended release niacin where over 50% of the patients developed liver toxicity.


So the Armour helped the cholesterol? I was prescribed thyroid for quite a few years back in the 80s & 90s. Moved & new doc said my thyroid was low, but not low enough to need help. I've had it checked several times over the years with the same result. But now I just got the results of the cholesterol test (that I reluctantly agreed to - told the doctor that no matter the result I wouldn't take a statin), & my total cholesterol & calculated LDL are both high (& higher than they were 2 years ago), but everything else is good.

I wonder if she would agree to a trial of Armour to see if it might help.

Last edited by Bonnie OFS : Thu, Feb-02-17 at 17:03.
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  #48   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 17:37
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Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
So the Armour helped the cholesterol?.
Oh absolutely. It's the T3 thyroid hormone which helps regulate cholestertol. Comventional "standard of care" requires doctors to prescribe lexothyroxine (synthroid) only which is T4, which the body then converts to T3. However quite a large subset of people (including me apparently) cannot convert very easily and need to get the T3 directly. Armour is something you need to start slowly and ramp up slowly as the direct T3 can cause things like heart palpitations if taken in too large a dose. This is easily managed but probably why my endo called it dangerous.

I don't know your age, but probably for similar reasons Medicare will not allow Armour to be included in any Part D drug formulary anywhere in the US, even though it's an FDA-regulated drug which has been around for a LONG time (decades? 100 years?) -far longer than synthroid.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I also got off on a tangent when I went to google to search on "orthomolecular medicine" as that term kept being used in the book and I'd never heard it before. It led me to a scathing Wikipedia article which essentially denounced any sort of "orthomolecular" therapy as faddish, quackery, new age, useless, dangerous - proponents as ignorant, uneducated, credulous - doctors like Hoffer as complete quacks .... sheesh
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  #49   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 17:50
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,330
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/165/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Sorry to hijack the thread.


I don't mind! I learned something that might be helpful to me.
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  #50   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 06:27
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
After a long long ordeal where conventional medical wisdom did no good at all, I got used to doing whacky things instead; and getting results
Oh believe, I do get that too! I've also gotten lots of help from things outside çonventional wisdom as well. I think probably many of us here have. Basic LCHF is outside the conventional wisdom too, after all.

Just that I've also tried a lot of unconventional things that have done wonders for people I trust that have done nothing for me. So I love reading threads like this but find myself thinking "hmmm, which category would this fall into? All or nothing?)
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  #51   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 07:01
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Just that I've also tried a lot of unconventional things that have done wonders for people I trust that have done nothing for me. So I love reading threads like this but find myself thinking "hmmm, which category would this fall into? All or nothing?)


Yes, it's like me reading endless articles and blogs about adrenal fatigue; but while that was what was wrong with me (in part) their suggestions did not make a dent. It wasn't until I got into Dr. Kruse's theories that I got some relief.

And talk about "out there..." That's Jack Kruse.

But I know you have tried lots of things that worked for lots of us even on this board; but it didn't work that way for you. I know how discouraging that is.
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  #52   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 07:56
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Didy Didy is offline
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Plan: Low carb
Stats: 136/118/115 Female 5' 2"
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Progress: 86%
Location: Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig

Sorry to hijack the thread. I also got off on a tangent when I went to google to search on "orthomolecular medicine" as that term kept being used in the book and I'd never heard it before. It led me to a scathing Wikipedia article which essentially denounced any sort of "orthomolecular" therapy as faddish, quackery, new age, useless, dangerous - proponents as ignorant, uneducated, credulous - doctors like Hoffer as complete quacks .... sheesh


WHAT???? Wikipedia said Hoffer is a Quack??? Now I'm REALLY interested in his methods!!! hahaha! I always perk up when "conventional wisdom" labels someone a quack!

I'm at 500 mg of niacin twice a day for about 3 days now - I worked my way up to it. I only get a teeny flush now, but I like it - especially on cold days. I do think it is helping my sweet cravings and with my attitude as well - I feel more relaxed and cheerful ....but how could this be??? It's all just quackery you know!
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  #53   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 09:01
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,704
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didy
WHAT???? Wikipedia said Hoffer is a Quack??? Now I'm REALLY interested in his methods!!! hahaha! I always perk up when "conventional wisdom" labels someone a quack!

I'm at 500 mg of niacin twice a day for about 3 days now - I worked my way up to it. I only get a teeny flush now, but I like it - especially on cold days. I do think it is helping my sweet cravings and with my attitude as well - I feel more relaxed and cheerful ....but how could this be??? It's all just quackery you know!


What's funny is that the same people who pompously lecture me on how wrong Wikipedia can be will swallow that article whole and not even burp

I think we're all somewhat inoculated against things like that because we were told for years that low carb would kill us and here we are, healthier (and often, slimmer) than our critics.

Medicine should be a societally supported art, not a greedy profit-driven business. Ironically, we are using science more than the purported scientists: we now know how many of them take money to slant research, just how enormous and influential the PR efforts are from food processors and pharmaceutical companies, and how corrupt many of our safeguarding institutions have become.

We are at the end of one medical era and the beginning of another. And that's always a tricky time
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  #54   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 10:24
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
We are at the end of one medical era and the beginning of another. And that's always a tricky time

Agreed, and as we transition, many are now understanding how important sound nutrition and whole foods are to health. The Pharmaceutical age has distorted many things and the greatest distortion is substituting human engineered drugs for sound nutritional approaches in the quest to correct and maintain health. They've gone after hiding symptoms rather than addressing the root cause. Good observation.
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  #55   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 12:19
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walnut walnut is offline
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Plan: C:12 P:60 F:satiety
Stats: 220/177.6/142 Female 5'5
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Progress: 54%
Location: canada, eh!
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nothing to do with niacin, but i have seen a couple of recent news stories of families who were using alternative medicine who have been jailed when their children have died. mainstream medicine fighting back? we don't see doctors or parents being jailed when prescription medicine kills children. scary times indeed.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...sons-death.html
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  #56   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 16:33
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walnut
nothing to do with niacin, but i have seen a couple of recent news stories of families who were using alternative medicine who have been jailed when their children have died. mainstream medicine fighting back? we don't see doctors or parents being jailed when prescription medicine kills children. scary times indeed.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...sons-death.html


I cannot equate that story with what some of us are trying here. The woman in the story rejected any medical intervention, and there was an easy and workable solution she did not seek.

But your other point is a good one: thousands are killed from prescription drug interactions, and nothing happens then.

Last edited by WereBear : Fri, Feb-03-17 at 16:52.
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  #57   ^
Old Fri, Feb-03-17, 18:48
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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For instance, thee's a book out about it, Our Daily Meds:

Quote:
The study estimating that 100,000 Americans die each year from their prescriptions looked only at deaths from known side effects. That is, those deaths didn’t happen because the doctor made a mistake and prescribed the wrong drug, or the pharmacist made a mistake in filling the prescription, or the patient accidentally took too much. Unfortunately, thousands of patients die from such mistakes too, but this study looked only at deaths where our present medical system wouldn’t fault anyone. Tens of thousands of people are dying every year from drugs they took just as the doctor directed. This shows you how dangerous medications are.


http://www.alternet.org/story/14731...panies_get_rich
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  #58   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-17, 10:46
walnut's Avatar
walnut walnut is offline
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Posts: 2,876
 
Plan: C:12 P:60 F:satiety
Stats: 220/177.6/142 Female 5'5
BF:0/0/0
Progress: 54%
Location: canada, eh!
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it seems like the medical establishment has been making examples out of a couple of extreme cases--there was another recent story in alberta where the family owned a supplement company. you're right that these extreme examples don't relate here. acute illnesses vs chronic disease.

often we find 'side benefits' from using supplements/diet/lifestyle changes. when i had my first arthritis flareup, my doctor was so much less than helpful when i started asking her questions about how to prevent the arthritis inflammation in the first place. she had me taking so much ibuprofen my stomach started bleeding. luckily i knew about hoffer, and i had first hand experience about the efficacy of biomedical treatments and was able to do my own research into the why's of the inflammation/pain. i immediately made dietary changes to eliminate inflammatory foods and added in anti inflammatory supplements. niacin worked so much better than ibuprofen and even in small doses, took the pain right away. ibuprofen didn't even touch the pain. i just don't have much respect for the way that modern medicine treats chronic disease. in my experience, it makes things worse.
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  #59   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-17, 10:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,704
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Just ran across a paper in the Orthomolecular Library:

Niacinamide’s Potent role in Alleviating Anxiety with its Benzodiazepine-like Properties: A Case Report (PDF link)

In lay terms: niacin (niacinamide) can work like a psychiatric drug.

I would say, even better, since I was put on Gabapentin for shingles pain, and that worked well. And for two weeks or so, it helped my anxiety. And then stopped working. My doctor gave me a tapering off schedule that would have lasted 18 months. (I shrank that to 4 months by using chelated magnesium.) Drugs like Valium, Prozac, and others have some serious side effects for many people.

Quote:
A case report demonstrated that the use of 2500mg of niacinamide (nicotinamide) per day ameliorated severe anxiety in a 34-year-old male patient. It appears that niacinamide has therapeutic properties similar to the benzodiazepines.


Benzodiazepines are barbiturates (names end in -pam) used for insomnia, anxiety, and depression.

Quote:
Niacinamide might exert its effects through its modulation of neuro-transmitters that are commonly unbalanced in those areas of the brain associated with anxiety. Niacinamide might also reduce anxiety by shunting more tryptophan toward the production of serotonin and/or by simply correcting a vitamin B3 dependency. The use of niacinamide for extended periods of time appears to be safe, but megadoses can cause sedation, nausea and vomiting.


I'm doing fine on 3G a day: and I have noticed a lessening of my anxiety! Mine was never at a level where I was seeking a prescription: I felt it had a real-world cause because I was so sick for years and it was ruining my life. But I am glad to see it go

Quote:
The only medications that completely resolved this patient’s anxiety were benzodiazepines. In an effort to wean off the benzodiazepine, the patient took increasing doses of niacinamide (nicotinamide). As demonstrated in the following case report, niacinamide was effective for addressing the benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms and managing anxiety.


This particularly got my interest because getting off psychiatric drugs can be a terrible ordeal, freezing people between the side effects of a drug which may or may not work, and the hellish symptoms of tapering off. When I was leaving gabapentin, my mood could plummet into the worst despair I have ever felt. But a quarter of a magnesium pill; and I was cheerful again.

I know some people find these drugs to be life-changing in a good way. But for everyone else, there is a good alternative to explore.
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  #60   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-17, 12:27
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,002
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I believe niacin is ideal for anxiety and stress reduction in those situations where one is prone to anxiety. As I've increased my daily dose, I have felt very relaxed and focused more towards the analytical during an unanticipated stressful occurrence. I am not prone to anxiety; yet, I can see how supplemental niacin is really helpful under these circumstances.

I've also made a decision on the correct daily dose for me. In a recent post, I observed that I was getting muscle fatigue and burning earlier than normal in my workouts. After doing some research, I read that larger doses of niacin can increase lactic acid. Bingo, that's what I was experiencing when I was up to 700-900mg per day. I wanted to make sure it wasn't just one workout, so after several more with similar reactions, I realized a dose adjustment was in order. I'm now down to 200mg per day, far greater than the RDA, but enough to get benefits. I'll try it at this level to see if I can find a sweet spot where I'm at the right dose without causing any lactic acid response. I'm firmly in the niacin supplement camp, as I'm certain that I wasn't getting enough through diet alone, and that the RDA should be far greater than the amount published today. Again, and as mentioned in the book, this is a very individualized type of supplement that will vary from person to person. It's worth while to experiment with different doses to find what's right.
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