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  #31   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 10:22
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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I welcome my eicosanoid Overlords!*

Yes, I do remember that from reading the Zone book. As I recall, his carb levels were too high for my Atkins Fan Girl self.

(*Simpsons pop culture reference)
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 11:17
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,576
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I did pretty good on the Zone, as long as I kept to his "best" carbohydrate choices. And since that meant broccoli, cucumbers and celery, and net carbs wasn't a thing back then, and I may have cheated and not eaten my full pound of broccoli at each meal, I was probably in the Atkins zone. Beer, ice cream and cottage cheese carefully rationed into blocks never quite worked for me.
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 13:22
walnut's Avatar
walnut walnut is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,876
 
Plan: C:12 P:60 F:satiety
Stats: 220/177.6/142 Female 5'5
BF:0/0/0
Progress: 54%
Location: canada, eh!
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I'm a huge fan of dr. hoffer, i've read lots of his books. At one point, my local library had a copy of one of his medical books that was full of case studies and the doses of medications/supplements, diagnoses and results of many of his patients over years of tx. Very interesting to read. Especially the case studies of people with cancer who were referred to him because of depression secondary to their cancers. So many of his depression/cancer patients survived their cancers past 5 yrs, even people with cancers that are usually fatal.

I had a flareup of my arthritis just before Christmas, took a bit of niacin and it cleared right up. I'm really really really sensitive to the niacin flush. I get very itchy from it. I take a 500mg tablet of niacin and chop it up into little pieces and just take one little piece at a time, and that seems to be more than sufficient for my needs. I guess that's a lot less niacin than what the good doctor recommended but it seems to do the trick.

Here in Canada, the flushing niacin is available at any pharmacy but they keep it behind the counter so you have to ask the pharmacist for it. They all seem to have the same ingredients: niacin, microcellulose, magnesium stearate, other inert fillers, no gluten/dairy/artificials.

re lack of niacin in the soil. dr hoffer practiced in victoria bc for a long time. i remember reading about soil analyzation that he had researched on the island. the lower half of the island has no selenium in the soil, so if people were eating a local diet, he would have them supplement selenium. i think it's likely that if the soil in sask was deficient in niacin, it would be mentioned in his writing. iirc he practiced in regina, so food would have been brought in from various places, just like any big city?

i often wonder how dr hoffer's work would be different now with all the advances in functional medicine. i met someone who had been taking megadoses of folic acid, prescribed by dr. hoffer. with what we know about mthfr now, that's something that just isn't done anymore, they tend to go with folinic acid instead.

more reading material:
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/index.shtml
http://orthomolecularvitamincentre.com/
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  #34   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 13:44
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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I took niacin when I lost my first chunk of weight and have taken it on and off since then. I really like it but there are two downsides for me.

I find it causes menstrual bleeding. I once bled for 20 days straight. At the time I was rapidly losing weight and a doctor suggested to me that the prolonged bleeding was likely a side effect of the estrogen being released from fat cells. I liked that idea, but I've since noticed that any time I take niacin for two or more days in a row, I've got spotting.

My other problem with niacin is that after the first day it makes me nauseous in the morning. (I take it right before bed). Anyway, I like niacin. It definitely takes away joint stiffness and it leaves me with a feeling of general well being, but I haven't noticed any weight loss benefits (which I think was why I started taking it in the first place).
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  #35   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 16:31
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Hmmm. Both of those symptoms would make sense if it releases estrogen from your fat cells. Estrogen can make one nauseated, for certain.
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  #36   ^
Old Wed, Feb-01-17, 11:50
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,155
 
Plan: LC/low Lactose
Stats: 304/289/130 Female 65 "
BF:
Progress: 9%
Location: PNW
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Ya, hmmm. I also seem to have started TOM early, coinciding with taking Niacin. Will see how long it lasts, and if it lasts more than a week I will decrease the dosage.

I was feeling so good about finally upping it to 1 g! Oh well...
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  #37   ^
Old Wed, Feb-01-17, 14:05
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Hmmm. Both of those symptoms would make sense if it releases estrogen from your fat cells. Estrogen can make one nauseated, for certain.


I didn't realize estrogen could make me nauseous. I'll be paying extra attention now. I guess I'm weird, but I actually like the way the flush feels, at least initially. But after a while, uncomfortable itching starts, especially on my legs. That's why I prefer my niacin at night - when everything is going my way, I fall asleep before the itch sets in.
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Feb-01-17, 15:09
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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I've been out on the web, found lots of reports of similar niacin-menstrual influences; but no theories about why it would happen.

However, it has been acting on me like a hormone regulator. Appetite steadier, so blood sugar more stable? I have a tad more energy, so either my cortisol resistance is being lowered (letting cortisol into the cells where it belongs) or I am actually making more adrenal hormones, perhaps?

If it is a weight loss help, I will soon find out
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 06:33
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
Default

Interesting niacin facts:
  • In the body, tryptophan can be converted to niacin or serotonin. If niacin is short, it gets preferentially converted, and serotonin gets shorted. So those of us who need the niacin get better brain balance from it.
  • Niacin is Master Detox. The occasional heart racing is the body doing so: that's the theory, anyway, but one again I have no explanation. I have been waking up at 2am with my heart beating a little fast, then it goes away and I go back to sleep. And the sleep I do get, is better.
  • Niacin thins the blood through its anti-inflammatory qualities. But this doesn't explain the menstrual behavior. Detox shaking down stray estrogen?
  • There's a lot of articles basically warning "Niacin will kill you." Though there isn't any recorded niacin deaths. And these same articles urge people to take statins instead. So I am not worried.

Also, a lot of the "niacin" articles actually turn out to be about prescription, slow-release, or other forms of niacin that try to avoid the flush; and so, they aren't niacin. I saw the same thing when I was researching progesterone; the scariest studies were done with the artificial Progestin; but you had to dig to find that out.

To me, it's just another form of "Eating Atkins will kill you!" And we all know how that one turned out.
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 08:17
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,155
 
Plan: LC/low Lactose
Stats: 304/289/130 Female 65 "
BF:
Progress: 9%
Location: PNW
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The first positive thing I'm seeing is DD3's acne is clearing up. Majorly. That is a biggie! She's actually taking her Niacin willingly now. For a teen's acne to clear up is big plus for her. But her mood is still stormy, though she seems happier. She is also admitting spotting, but doesn't seem to be that bothered by it.

So yesterday I had .75 g, a half tablet after breakfast and a tablet during supper and had a strong flush about an hour afterwards, though the day before when I had a tablet and a half after supper just a sleepy warm feeling. What gives with that! I will try having a half tablet at lunch also.

Looking through the studies, problems seem to occur with use of slow release types, but also in doses above 3 g daily. I see no reason to go to that high a level unless one was schizophrenic which is not the case here. We're seeing beneficial results with 500 mg.

Last edited by sandy867 : Thu, Feb-02-17 at 08:42.
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  #41   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 08:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy867
The first positive thing I'm seeing is DD3's acne is clearing up. Majorly. That is a biggie! She's actually taking her Niacin willingly now. For a teen's acne to clear up is big plus for her. But her mood is still stormy, though she seems happier. She is also admitting spotting, but doesn't seem to be that bothered by it.


That is a biggie for certain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy867
Looking through the studies, problems seem to occur with use of slow release types, but also in doses above 3 g daily. I see no reason to go to that high a level unless one was schizophrenic which is not the case here. We're seeing beneficial results with 500 mg.


While I went up to 3g because I was getting results with lesser amounts; but lesser results than I am getting now. Now I am feeling the blood sugar control, good sleep, and calmness I was after.

It is very much an individual thing. And with the detox effect, I make sure I get my C and B complex with each dose.
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 09:28
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,012
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I'm still curious about where my ideal niacin dose will be in terms of quantity. I'm now at about 700mg per day, gradually increasing the dose when flushing starts to decrease at that amount. I'm about 75% through the book, and I'm still looking for the recommended dose for one who wants to improve cardiovascular health along with some other beneficial results. I now look forward to the flush, as it is not objectionable. I feel very calm and clear headed, but that was the case before I started. It seems that calmness and clarity have increased some. Also, my heart rate is very consistent and seems to have slowed a bit. In my workouts, however, I noticed some fatigue yesterday that could be attributable to a number of things, so I can't target niacin as the culprit until I do a few more workouts. So far, I'm liking this protocol.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 10:15
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,723
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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After ramping up to 3G, I had a bit of transitory queasiness (not full nausea) for a few minutes after meals taken with my vitamins, but that has now stopped.

I had a weird throat thing, where one side of my throat felt "funny" when I ate: this is the side of my head down to my shoulder I have injured through overuse. It's fine now.

And I continue to wake up at 2am with my heart going a little fast: then it calms down and I go back to sleep. There's usually a pit stop involved, but that means I am losing weight -- I am back down into my size 12s and there's only one more size to go before I reach goal!

This is exciting because my health has been blocking weight loss for years now; my illness put thirty pounds back on me and I am finally seeing it go.
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 11:08
Didy's Avatar
Didy Didy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,057
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 136/118/115 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: Washington
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I had just ordered this book a week or so ago. This doctor uses niacin to treat all kinds of issues! So much info!! I wanted to read it for help with carb cravings and stubborn pockets of fat, haha. Its a great read! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EVXAF6...ing=UTF8&btkr=1

Last edited by Didy : Thu, Feb-02-17 at 14:24.
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Feb-02-17, 15:33
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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I'm enjoying this thread. My only experience with niacin is from about 10 years ago when a routine blood test showed my total cholesterol had zoomed to near 300, and my TSH reading was way elevated. My GP put me on synthroid and we retested months later, and everything was still out of whack. I had been researching in the meantime and asked her about Armour thyroid, but she would have nothing to do with it, and said I needed to see an endocrinologist.

Fast forward, saw the endo who said Armour thyroid was dangerous and she would never prescribe it, but was RABID to put me on statins ASAP. However my research had already made me completely anti-statin and we had some huge fights, but I had also read that niacin could help with cholesterol and might I try that?

So grudgingly she "allowed" me to take niacin though constantly swore that is was pretty much cr*p compared to statins. I took niacin for about 6 months with no obvious improvements in anything (after 10 years I'm afraid I can no longer remember what dose I was on) and cholesterol still in the 296 range.

Around that time I finally found a holistic nurse-practitioner willing to prescribe Armour, and in one month my total cholesterol (290+ for a few years at that point) dropped to 191 within 4 weeks - with HDL, LDL, trigs all good. At that point I stopped the niacin, having developed some vague fears of it - I think now due to reading about the trials of extended release niacin where over 50% of the patients developed liver toxicity.

Anyway, I have not even thought about niacin from that day to this until reading this thread - but I got the kindle copy of the book mentioned in the first post just this afternoon and have begun reading it.

So far very interesting reading, but I'm still a tad leery since I've read so many other books and articles about other vitamins/amino acids, etc. that claim to be "the way, the truth and the life" for optimal health if taken as claimed. I've tried some of them and none have ever done squat for me, just as niacin never did in the past (again, though, no clue now what my dose was), so I'm wondering what it might do for me now.
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