Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 06:23
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 4,565
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Following what MickiSue wrote and my previous winge about Hba1c and PIR...

At the last local support group meeting, Dr Westman advised a woman to stop testing her BG. She has been back on LC for about 6 months, sticking to plan, doing well but still has more abdominal weight to lose, driving herself crazy why BG was X this day, Z the next. If you are at the point you are off medications, you know what foods not to eat ( and a 6 or 10 oz steak is not going to differ that much), Stressing about the number is not going to help you (just read Dr Fung last night on stress, cortisol and Insulin). Take a short walk instead of hanging around home to test BG


As I said before, that's what I have decided too, to just stop testing. Our bodies are complex organisms, not machines that can be controlled with 100% certainty, so all we can do is use the knowledge we have and then let go. If one day you eat a couple more ounces of meat than you usually do, it's fine. You'll still be going in the right directions for your health and weight.

Jean
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 07:39
kirkor kirkor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 188
 
Plan: IF dairy-free keto ish
Stats: 175/175/170 Male 71
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Remember that an ounce of lean meat has approximately 7 grams of protein. So, a quarter pound of beef has approximately 28 grams or 1 ounce of protein.
Bless you, GRB!!! That's the first explanation that was simple enough for me to comprehend. I'm going to save that.


Also, from Andy Morgan I got the simplified rule of 100g of raw meat containing ~20g of protein.
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 09:14
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Also...I don't remember who said this, it was so long ago. But a rule of thumb I was given is that our bodies can't process more than about 25 gms of protein at a time. That's one reason why we tend to stay full so long after a high protein meal...it's taking its time getting processed.

As opposed to carbs, which, whether they are simple, complex or "healthy" whole grains. , will be out of your digestive system and either burned or stored in a maximum of two hours.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 11:19
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,389
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Contrary to what other people are saying, what worked for me was to use my meter. When I ate lower amounts of protein, my FBG dropped by quite a lot. I went from 100-110 FBG to 70-80 FBG, just depending on the amount of protein. I was still eating quite a lot of carb (but mostly fiber). Net carbs were around 20-30g.

I'm not positive about what happens if you drop it all at one meal. I know BG and insulin both go up to deal with the protein, but nowhere near the amount of carbs. However, they stay up longer. So perhaps the best time to meter is just before your daily meal.

Now, don't obsess over the meter, but it is helpful to track what is happening in your body when you make changes. Just... be rational with its use. Day to day fluctuations happen and meters aren't all that precise. If you're the sort to get knotted up over that, then this advice isn't for you.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Fri, Feb-19-16 at 12:10.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 12:05
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

I'm not testing a lot. Maybe once or twice a day. I managed to misplace my favorite meter yesterday, so haven't tested at all.

And I'm not really all that concerned about whether protein causes my BG to go up, since my range is so tight already, but I'm more concerned about the insulinogenic effect as discussed by Dr. Fung. I've read a couple of keto writers online saying it really is negligible, but I'd like to get a better handle on what Dr. Fung is saying, since ultimately, it's insulin, not glucose that I"m concerned about.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-16, 12:11
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,389
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Get a fasting insulin test done after you've been on-plan for a while. They're pretty cheap and you can order your own in many places.

The nice thing about having low BG is you know that the insulin is also going to be low.

Even following Atkins very closely I had insulin in the mid-high normal range.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-16, 10:02
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

Posting this here. I think it might be helpful.

https://www.facebook.com/jeff.cyr.5...436398313231369
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 05:33
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

Adding this link here as it seems to dismiss the thought you can move your blood glucose too much by excess protein.

http://caloriesproper.com/dietary-p...lucose-control/

Although it doesn't answer the insulinogenic question, I don't believe.
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 06:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,202
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Bill is not the only one who dismisses how significant the protein contributes to BG. There are others who also think protein issue is overblown, all rather confusing.

I just started Dr Hyman's new book, he still calls his diet "pegan", emphasize veggies, yet when he gave a range for protein, it averages out to 100-120g. That is about how much I would eat before I ever started tracking and worrying about it. Sounds good to me
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 09:25
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

I haven't read Dr Hyman's new book, but read his older one. As I recall, he wanted you to eat Low Carb, but did not push the idea of nutritional ketosis. I think it is when you get carbs so low that you expect continuous ketosis (especially if you are tracking it with blood ketone testing and are looking for certain results) that "excess" protein becomes an issue.

I started eating LC with a Real Foods version of South Beach Diet, which included eating lean meats to satiety. It got me off to a great start. Later (with Atkins) I found I could eek off a few more lbs by lowering carbs further and by lowering protein, but my health benefits and major weight loss (still off) came in those first couple months of 2004 when I started the SBD.

There are so many ways to eat Low Carb and they are all a major improvement over SAD. Why not experiment to find the best fit and/or change programs within the various approaches to LCHF from time to time to find the one that is the best fit for you in terms results AND ease of compliance?

I'm about halfway through Dr Fung's new book - have not read the part about protein yet, but if I see any new clarifications, will post here.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 10:17
kirkor kirkor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 188
 
Plan: IF dairy-free keto ish
Stats: 175/175/170 Male 71
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiSue
Also...I don't remember who said this, it was so long ago. But a rule of thumb I was given is that our bodies can't process more than about 25 gms of protein at a time. That's one reason why we tend to stay full so long after a high protein meal...it's taking its time getting processed.


Not really --- it's not like protein in excess of 25g just turns to poop or something. You can still eat more than that in a meal and derive benefit from it.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 21:49
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,103
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Bill is not the only one who dismisses how significant the protein contributes to BG. There are others who also think protein issue is overblown, all rather confusing.

I just started Dr Hyman's new book, he still calls his diet "pegan", emphasize veggies, yet when he gave a range for protein, it averages out to 100-120g. That is about how much I would eat before I ever started tracking and worrying about it. Sounds good to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
There are so many ways to eat Low Carb and they are all a major improvement over SAD. Why not experiment to find the best fit and/or change programs within the various approaches to LCHF from time to time to find the one that is the best fit for you in terms results AND ease of compliance?

Two very wise recommendations. Low carb is supposed to be easy to follow without a lot of counting, whether it's protein or calories. Yes, count carbs and keep them low with lower carb vegetables as the only dietary source. I agree, we can get overly prescriptive with this. N=1 works, and the patience to find what works for you and make the necessary course corrections to fine tune is all part of this. Over time, and I'm talking about 1 - 2 years and beyond, this WOE becomes so fundamental that you realize it's now a familiar lifestyle with zero sensation that you're making sacrifices.
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Mon, Feb-29-16, 05:31
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,202
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Adding a comment made by Bill Lagokos in an old interview found while cleaning out of podcasts: He thinks this concern about "too much protein" when trying to stay in ketosis arises from the diets used with epileptic children. They need enough calories to grow while restricting carbs. If they ate too much protein, they wouldn't have the appetite to eat enough fat and calories and grow, leading to the strict protein formulas seen in their studies.
Which brings us back to Dr Fung's flexible protein guidelines of 20-30% of calories for us old folks
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Mon, Feb-29-16, 08:40
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkor
Not really --- it's not like protein in excess of 25g just turns to poop or something. You can still eat more than that in a meal and derive benefit from it.


That's not what I meant. It just takes much longer to process, if you get in more than that.

Kind of the "OMG. I ate a big steak 3 hours ago and it's still sitting in my gut" feeling.
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Mon, Feb-29-16, 08:59
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiSue
That's not what I meant. It just takes much longer to process, if you get in more than that.

Kind of the "OMG. I ate a big steak 3 hours ago and it's still sitting in my gut" feeling.


I wonder if it is due to the protein in the steak or the fat - or the combination? It's been a long time since I've eaten lean meat, but does it stick around like a big ole ribeye does?

Janet, I'd not realized Fung was recommending 20-30% protein for the "older folks". Was that in one of his blog posts or the book?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49.


Copyright © 2000-2019 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.