OK, I can find ZERO research on how the LCHF diet/Keto is for people with kidney disease, i.e. lower function in filtering. My urologist freaked at the word "Butter" has no idea saturated s fats are refuted as evil, it's Transfats bad..., and while I have been GREAT in losing weight, 13lb in 45 days, my BP is fine ( I take meds, am normal) sleep well, exercise, water, low salt/potas/phos, yada yada..

BUT I have only one kidney, lost other to cancer in 2010 , but am cancer free, this kidney had Stage 3 CKD SINCE then and NO MD said a flipping word..said I was fine. went untreated for 3 years til I figured it out myself!

so now here I am after success and satiety on LCHF and my kidney function dropped from low stage 3 (32egfr)to mid stage 4 (26 egfr)…bad!! and it did this during the LCHF 2 months! "Correlation does not mean Causation"…but what if high fats does harm filtering? [and this could mean for everyone! ]

Can anyone show how the kidneys process higher fat intake?

My protein is lower at 39-60gr/p/d because of one kidney, my carbs were <30, and 140ish for fats. Little red meat, lots of eggs, cheese, butter, dairy fats, berries/veggies on 1400 calorie diet.

Now I had to agree to UP the carbs .100 ..but I only choose more veggies/berries, NO grains. am carb/sugar intolerant.

Here is one study that shows NO research down on Stage 3-5 kidney patients. If Bernstein's LCHF is GREAT for diabetics, with poor kidney function, why not for CKD?
http://www.renalandurologynews.com/high-fat-low-carb-diet-beneficial-for-ckd-patients/article/314032/

Help, please….

MuddyGurl, you are on the right track. If diabetes and hypertension are the leading causes of kidney failure and if LCHF can help reverse both conditions, then why wouldn't LCHF help reverse kidney failure?

There was a study done in 2011 that showed that LCHF could indeed reverse kidney failure. http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...10420184429.htm
The study was done on rodents, obviously similar studies should be done with humans.

LIZ this is the sad part, that is a 4 year old study, everyone has seen it, but do Nephs actually follow it for CKD patients? prolly not.

and NO new info available, I've looked, zippo..

the Urologist irritated me as she had NO info on what my protein intake could be..and the dietitians are all USDA high carb trained…they all freak at saturated fats, as if I am trying to kill myself, and they hate it if you bring in Bernsteins Diabetes Solution or other books on LC…the FEAR of fats is so great it is still forcing thousands of diabetics to eat carbs/take insulin while Dr. J. Fung and others have PROVEN otherwise. grrrrr.

Prof Noakes is on radio saying fats ok for one kidney but he was GUESSIING and not solid facts to offer.

I ate a tiny 2.5" apple today..15 carbs…grrrr making myself eat up to 100 carbs is tough, I hate it.

Are you familiar with this wesite? Www.intensivedietarymanagement.com
Canadian nephrologist Dr Jason Fung uses LCHF and IF to cure his patients' diabetes and presumably extend the function of their kidneys.

Edit: Sorry, just saw you'd mentioned him.. You will have to find a new nephrologist, someone open to your ideas. You also have the right to ignore dietician's advice and chart your own course for eating. If you truly believe in lLCHF, why eat 100 g per day?

The following stood out to me in the article about LCHF article posted in RUN: "The 2-year decrease in the urine albumin-to-creatinine ratio directly correlated with the decrease of the saturated fat level".

In the ScienceDaily-linked study, the mice were put on a "ketogenic diet (5% carbohydrate, 8% protein, 87% fat)". That is a pretty low level of protein: 30 g. on a 1,500 calorie diet.

I'm sure you know this, Muddygurl, but maybe Liz doesn't: Serum creatinine is what drives the lab test that detects kidney disease. Creatinine is filtered out through the kidneys as a by-product of protein digestion and muscle contractions. More (higher) creatinine indicates loss of kidney function; less (lower) creatinine indicates better function. Seems to me, if you reduce dietary protein to 8%, you're therefore going to have less creatinine to filter. Your lab tests are going to look like there is improved kidney function, when they really just reflect a low protein intake. JMHO.

Also - I wonder what 'reverse' (as in reversing kidney disease) really means. A ketogenic diet may change lab test results, but I didn't read that the changes were sustained after the diet ended.

One more thing...in the RUN article it says: "2-year increase in eGFR was significantly associated with 2-year decrease of body weight, fasting plasma insulin levels, homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance (HOMA-IR), and systolic and diastolic blood pressure (P , 0.05 for all)." Sounds like a vote for staying the weight-loss course.

Until now, all I've heard or read is to reduce protein to slow the decline. Dietician #1 wants me eating no (or very low) fat, too. Ugh. Like I've said elsewhere, I have an appointment with a LC dietician this coming week...hope she tells me what I want to hear.

You are right, Paula, that going ultra-low on protein can have negative effects. Current recommendations seem to be coming around to having a balance, neither high protein or low (.8 to 1 gram protein for each kg of ideal weight). But if you can arrest destruction of the nephrons by replacing carbs with fat, you have a chance to keep kidney function longer.

I don't have kidney disease but since both my parents had end stage at their deaths (my mom was on dialysis) I do try to keep up with it.

Also, my 18 year old cat has had kidney disease for the past 6 years and I regularly keep up with recommendations for her. Interesting, 5 years ago, they were beginning to debate whether low protein/low phosphorus was a good strategy for cats, and now I'm seeing that same questioning for humans. Not that cats=humans, in fact cats have much higher protein intake and lower carb intake and relatively smaller kidneys. I never shifted Amelia to a low protein diet, instead kept her on a high quality wet food, and for most of her 6 years she has thrived. I've had her on a phosphorus blocker for 2 years, which has helped, but at almost 19 she is beginning to fade.

Gonewwind..we have MANY similarities. Liz there is NO reversal only slowing, which is why no NIH money is spent on it..just ERSD, when we al know DIET is the key to health, no money in that, eh? I have an appt with a Naturapathic dr I saw in 2010…and hopefully she will order the Cyctatin C test that is MUCH better than the standard creatinine. (VA refuses even if I offer to pay..grumble}
Here is shocking tale of wasted gov research Money from Coping with Kidney Disease (12 steps to avoid dialysis). Dr. m. Walser at Johns Hopkins lobbied int eh 80s to PLEASE study a ver low 20 gr protein diet amended with ketoacids/amino acids.. it was a TOTAL clucterfuck.and I say that MILDLY. $100M was spent, Walser was kicked off for "conflict" (he was not allowed to mention special ketoacids developed by JH, which were included, no thanks to the USGov panel) and then the company who MADE the ketoacids substitiuted their own formula ( NOT the carefully developed ketoacids of JH- this is typical gov give the contract to lowest bidder mentality, not the experts who knew what they were doing!) totally fucking up the entire study so no one knew what was studied. My BP goes up just retelling this!!!! at the end they had NO real data to share, and were attacked. Many studies are done on 40-60gr protein..which I can easily stick to, but as Dr. Walser found NO ONE wanted to study CKD & Low protein+aminos as it is 'understood' there is no reversal..so why bother spending money away from OTHER NIH research (like MEDS) .. I could cry. NKF has a KEEP program to gain awareness…but if the Nephs and MDS won't even TRY to tell people they have CKD? (The Neph who was annoyed to see me with egfr 40 in 2012 said she wasn't responsible for my BP, leaving it to my passive MD who failed to treat it..I wound up with a STROKE shortly after starting BP meds I demanded in 2013 …if I had NOT been on them, I might be dead or permanently in a wheelchair and spoon fed. holy crap. (bp of <120/60 is imperative for us 1 kidney folk, my MD was clueless..I doubled my meds on my own to get it down, then he complied)

I have decided my VA dietitian "USDA plate" girl is useless… last night I decided I am NOT going backwards and eating any more carbs..(blueberries- yes,) I WILL lower fats to 85ish for the next renal panel. but I am once again on my own.
Gonwthwindo…DO tell me what happens with the LC dietitian? are you in CA? I have emails out to several kidney/LCHF experts and hoping for a reply.
People have raised egfr a little ~5-10 pts, but their own situation does not relate to all. ( a 167 lb woman in Sac did get hers up 5 pts by eating more carbs, lower protein..I have access to her dairy in MFP if anyone is interested.

Muddygurl, I found the LC dietician online, and it'll be a phone or Skype Q&A consultation lasting 30 minutes for $65. Her name is Franziska and here is her website: http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com

She doesn't say anything about working with kidney patients on her website; I emailed her telling her I've been LC since 2003, my CKD diagnosis, and the vegan diet my insurance's dietician wants me on. I asked if she would be comfortable directing me in a way that would keep me healthy in light of both CKD, diabetes, and LC and she said yes. She made a quick comment about probably having to work in some vegetable protein but I have my fingers crossed.

I have had so much frustration in the sheer lack of study being done for kidney disease. I suspect most of it is done by Phd students, as once they are out in the world they probably just bid on contracts (funded by pharma, etc.) to get the bills paid, just like everyone else. I don't know how they fund the studies they do while students...maybe it's the same. Just trying to imagine WHY.

I looked at the DaVita site and wondered what their motive would be to advise on diet for pre-dialysis stages. Maybe it is just that they believe the decline is inevitable, so if they get you going to the Davita site for dietary advice during that time, they'll get you as a dialysis patient.

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Thanks Gonwtwindo…. as you see it is beyond frustrating to see BILIONS spent--172 last count for ESRD, and most of it for dialysis a BURDEN on the entire country..and 2050 estimated as 1 in 3 with diabetes.. WTF aren't they PUSHING us all to get aware???

Answer- Because like the 40 year high grain-agro conspiracy and the ego of one man to the president's ear (Ancel Keyes may he rot in hell)…pushed us this way. 40 years of BUYING into the low fat, heathly grains plate crap that put MILLIONS of older women in this position. We believed them at 20, and now at 60+ we are fighting for our lives, unable to lose weight, stuck with metabolic syndrome, and fighting the dinosaurs of the USDA mindset is we are successful on LCHF. Nutritional Ketosis may be the ideal for us, but how many will fight the system?.

I am sincerely interested in a HIGH FAT dairy: full fat Bulgarian yogurt is my heritage, cheese, butter, s. cream, etc, Plus eggs as an ideal digestible protein diet for myself. Removing most red meat, with some chicken, a little cold water wild fish. I LOVE a fatty Tbone steak, my favorite, and ribs, and a cheeseburger on occasion, but I pass on these knowing they will strain kidneys.

Gonewtwindo- I liked your advice on upping carbs/salts pre renal test…I really wonder if my LOW protein 38-60ish during the last 2 tests are why my egfr shows a drop/rise in creatinine. as mentipmed earlier Walser proves this true for CKD and healthy patients. But I may do the below instead:

The cimitedine (Tagamet OTC- stomach acid reliever) test by Dr. M. Walser, you take 900 mg night before, day of renal panel for a more realistic creatinine. I AM going to buy some and try this, worst case I just do another blood test.. and really piss off the docs. There is NO risk in this, multiple studies confirm it, yet not used. A timed cimitedine urine collection using this is also effective, collecting up to 2 gal of urine yourself over a day is not hard, and most labs won't do it. but Walser clearly explains how simple it is to actually do (prolific pee'rs just buy a cat litter 2 gal container, and use that if needed, over 1 gallon empty milk jug. (geeze what we do for ourlife, eh?)

GONWTHWINDO-- I CAN"T MSG YoU PRIVATELY, I tried, this SYSTEM TOLD ME NO. I will call the same LC dietitian tomorrow, after my Kidney ultrasound.

I am happy to share my email here for you, please do use it(copy exactly it has a middle Initial that some miss) : charmainertaylor~gmail.com

anyone else who wants to write me i am happy to help if I can, as a retired writer/researcher/bookseller NOW with Keto brain energy I spend a lot of time in Pubmed and other clinical journals

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SATURATED FATS KETO & CKD
Dr. Peter Attia is a very-low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet proponent who believes that elevated LDL-P values warrant dietary modifier ….Patient whose LDL-P dropped from 3500 to 1300 as a result of cutting saturated fat intake down to 25 grams per day while remaining on a ketogenic diet. He goes on to say:

"While I believe the population-based guidelines for SFA are not supported by a standard of science I consider acceptable, it does not imply I believe SFA is uniformly safe at all levels for all individuals."
+++++++++++

this is EXACTLY the info I was looking for..on his website he has a long blog on this,and I emailed him from there, no answer yet for CKD stage 3-5 dangers of fats in LCHF diet, despite MANY other benefits.
http://eatingacademy.com/personal/e...#comment-813146

Thanks, MG. I'll read up and probably email him, too. I emailed Dr. Fung but haven't heard anything back. He's a nephrologist! but his blog makes no mention of CKD.