It's called control. That is the only thing she can control in her life at the tender age of 17. It's all pretty sad, the whole dynamic of it. Just the fact that it was put under "emotional issues and body image" to begin with. Its not about the daughter at all really.....Its about Jo's emotional issues and body image that she has of her daughter.

I was 17 when I grew my wings, hopefully she will soon too.

To be fair , this thread was originally started in the General LowCarb forum. As Jo stated in her OP, she wasn't sure where to put it. The moderators opted to move it to this Emotional Issues section for several reasons. First, it's not really about lowcarb diets per se. Second, it was recognized that this topic would undoubtedly touch on emotional issues for *all* participants, not just the OP.


Doreen

and that it did, for me anyways, ....more than anyone here will ever know.

Maybe she's controlling something much worse than her weight when she eats. There are things that feel worse than gaining weight.


What mother doesn't want what's best for her child? I don't think it's about Jo. I think it's about Jo seeing her daughter making the same kind of mistakes all of us have made. Jo's question is what should she do about it. My opinion is that I don't know but at 17 I'm guessing Jo's daughter needs love more than she needs someone pointing out her flaws.


That's better than me. I was about 23 and had a wife and a daughter.

As a living, breathing massive carb craver myself (or addict if you prefer) - I think it is all about the food -- eating food that causes spikes and crashes in blood sugar. A carb craver is locked on a constant battle of will to either fight the craving or give in to it. Sometimes the cravings are mild and other times they are freaking intense. Yes - there are lots of outside factors that play a roll in whether you can maintain the willpower to resist the cravings. Stress, emotional issues, and even the anxiety of puberty can erode one's willpower to resist. Once this happens, that is where the irrational behavior can come to play. Example: One day, I discovered my wife had hidden a huge unopened bag of Halloween candy in the closet. Stuck in a life of constantly craving food, I still managed to resist getting into it for quite some time (weeks). Then one day, the craving was more powerful than the willpower and I broke open the bag. Once that happened, the bag was destine to be emptied in short order. Eating candy only intensifies the cravings for more candy. I dipped into it regularly (hiding the wrappers) over the next few days until it was gone. When my wife found out, she was pissed (again). But here's the rub... I'm the same way with fruit juice. If there is a jug of orange juice in the fridge and I have some of it, I have intense cravings for more. If I eat two slices of toast -- the same thing. Pretty much any high carb food will result in me having some level of craving after having it.

To me, a carb craving is not really hunger. It feels almost exactly like how a smoker feels when they've gone too long without a cigarette (and I know this from experience). When the cravings are bad, you just can't take your mind off of eating some high carb food. I did not understand why I was this way, but I was pretty sure that I was going through something that not everybody else does. I'd bet Jo's daughter is in exactly the same boat -- times two because of her age. She probably has no clue that it is the very food that she craves the most that, in turn, causes the worst cravings.

Today, I have virtually eliminated my unnatural craving for carby food by only eating food low on the glycemic index -- food that does not spike my blood sugar. My wife still has candy hidden in various places that I know about. But I have no desire to eat it. I don't even think about it. With the carb magnet gone, I can and do eat like a normal person.

I read a survey recently that showed that 94% of Americans believe that the obesity problem is ultimately a problem of self control. While this may be technically true, I don't blame the obese person. I blame the food. There have always been human beings that crave carbs more than others do. I've even read that some believe this is a 'survival of the species' thing and is part of our evolution. I don't know about that, but in today's world, we are asking carb cravers to live like kids in a candy shop -- and telling them not to eat too much. We should be teaching them about their condition and show them how they can live without being in a constant state of craving food. They won't like the solution, either. Carb cravers need to give up eating the food that causes blood sugar spikes -- which is pretty much everything that they currently crave.

I agree. Along with the cravings/addiction, I think there may also be a component here that she may want to be eating more 'normal' things and be 'normal' like other people her age. Most people don't like being the odd-man-out or not be 'normal' compared to their peers. I think if one looks to see how children with juvenile diabetes or T2D kids rebel (during adolescence especially), one might find some other methods/techniques of handling the situation as well.

One more thing...

I've known that I am a carb craver for most of my life. I didn't understand what was going on for much of that time. I knew the intensity of the crave monster varied from day to day, but I had no idea that lots of the supposed "healthy" things I ate were triggers for intense cravings as much as junk food was. I could generate enough will power to lose weight, but when I returned to eating regular food - I could never keep it off. I've always hoped for some medical breakthrough that would 'cure' my condition of constantly craving food. I waited in vain -- but eventually found the information I needed to figure out how to control my cravings on my own.

Then recently, I saw advertisements for a new diabetes drug. I have a healthy skepticism for any new drug and its potential laundry list of adverse effects. But from what I saw, they just might be on to something with this one...

Link to Information about 2 new diabetes drugs

If these drugs turn out to be safe, it appears to me that they just might be attacking the trigger for carb cravings with this drug. They clearly state that this is not a "weight loss drug" but a positive side effect of the drug is notable weight loss. Could it be that this drug may lesson carb cravings of high GI foods? I'm not ready to run out and try to get a prescription, but I do think they may be on the right track with this one. A safe pill that blocks carb cravings would be something that I would consider. Maybe a 'cure' for obesity will happen one day. I will be keeping an eye on this one and will be very interested to see how it goes.

He was incredibly horrible - not what I want to say, nor what I wanted him to say, but TBH, the pair of them have always "sparred". Even when they were little lol!! She call him names too. In fact she's the more volatile of the two and can hold her own. The interesting thing is they squabble as siblings do. But they wont tolerate anyone else having ago go at the other one - even me, if I step in and try to stop them, they both turn on me "Oh leave him/her alone, he/she's only joking"!!! They love each other really

Jo xxx

She may not be a carb craver. We really don't know. That is why the lines of communication should be left wide open. Open ended questions, i.e. "How was your day dear?", and non- judgmental answers, i.e. " I'm sorry to hear that dear. " might be the way only way to help.

I'd say you might be right, but that is not how I see it. This might be a case of 'it takes one to know one". Jo has provided just a few examples of her daughter's questionable behavior, but I can relate to what her daughter is going through. It sound like me. It sounds like my oldest daughter, too. Perhaps she ate her brother's 5 donuts or all the left-over pizza just to get back at him for some reason -- or perhaps she is an "Emotional Eater." But to me, this behavior has 'carb craver' written all over it. I use the term 'carb craver' over 'addict' because I don't intend it to be judgmental. "Addict" is associated with drug and alcohol abuse, and I don't like that term because to me it is somewhat judgmental. I was born a carb craver -- that is how I am wired. I don't like it any more than anyone else who has a physical trait that is different from the norm. I'm not at fault for what I am, but I do own it. I'd love to believe that a little counseling or a tender hug would help me resolve my problem. But I know it wouldn't. Craving carbs is a real and physical condition and you can't do anything about it until you first recognize that you are a carb craver.

There are lots of people in this world -- and even on this forum -- that buy into the "emotional eater" idea will full force and dismiss or minimize the idea that some people just crave food more intensely than most people do. I tend to believe the opposite. I believe that some people do not crave carbs at all after eating high GI food, some get uncontrollably intense cravings from high GI food, and many fall somewhere in between (manageable carb craving). I believe that aside from those with certain health issues, most very obese people would fall into the "intense carb craver" group. I also tend to think that much of what people identify as "Emotional Eating" is really carb craving in disguise. For me, it was often feelings of anger, depression, self-loathing, etc. that deflated my willpower to resist eating the food I constantly craved. But I would eat to satisfy the craving -- not to feel better emotionally. A good ole fashion donut binge would only increased my level of anger, depression, and self-loathing. It really is a terrible cycle to figure out and it is hard to break out of.

I may be a freak of nature -- and what I've figured out about myself may only apply to myself. Again - I could say that - but that is not how I see it. I hope that what I write here might be the spark that helps another poor soul like me figure out what they need to do to get their life back. I believe the solution I've found for me will work for my obese daughter. At age 21, she is finally giving this idea of a LC lifestyle a serious try. She's never been receptive to it before -- and I'd like to think that it is because I finally understand why the diet works for us and have passed this knowledge on to her. I don't know if she will stick with this for life. I don't know if I will (although that is the plan). But I am fairly certain that if we don't stay low carb, we will not be normal sized people.

This reminds me of one of my sisters when she was 17. She would eat any carby thing that was not nailed down. Leftovers were never safe unless you hid them in your own dresser drawer or something.

My other sister (who is 6 feet tall, considers herself "fat" and goes on a diet if her weight hits 140, and who can stare food in the face for weeks without even thinking about it one way or the other) who was also a teen at the time had bought a bunch of quality chocolates to give to various friends for either Valentine's Day or Easter (I forget which). It would not bother her at all to have chocolate sitting in her bedroom for months on end, so she bought these a few at a time, and then wrapped them all up with tissue paper and ribbons and bows, and had them sitting on a shelf in her room. Until one day other sister came in and ATE THEM ALL - ripped all the wrapping and ribbons to shreds and ate every single piece of candy! Skinny sister went ballistic as it had taken her months to save the money to buy all the candy, and in one afternoon it was all gone.

If we ever had cake or pie leftover from anything it would be gone the next day, ditto pizza or anything just about, Even though I call myself a carb addict I never did that. But this sister ate everyone's food. She remained skinny though as she also developed a bulemia problem and had a constant binge/purge cycle - and when confronted about missing foods would deny that she had eaten them or touched them.

My parents, at their wits end, finally took her to a psychiatrist. Luckily they found a good one (after one false start with a dreadful one). He listened to everyone's stories and spent some time with my sister, and then said he felt her problem was physiological, not psychological. He referred her to a doctor who specialized in nutrition. This doctor put her on a wheat-free, sugar-free diet. For some reason she was willing to listen to the doctor even though not her parents - and my parents would never have suggested wheat-free, sugar-free anyway. They just screamed "why can't you control yourself!"

On the WF/SF diet her moods stabilized, she went back to school (she had dropped out) and got all A's and B's. She became like a different person. But it all depended on getting her to the right doctor. I don't know what options you might have for getting her to see someone outside the family whose option she might trust - and of course that you would trust also. It's not easy to find someone suggesting a WF/SF attempt!

Sadly, in some ways, it's still a big struggle for my sister. That was 40 years ago that she had that epiphany, and she was good about sticking with it for a few years. But she still loves her carbs. To this day she jokes that she knows the location of every Dunkin Donuts within a 20-mile radius of her house. She has managed to control the bulemia but she still goes on massive cycles of carb binges followed by a few days of starvation eating, then more binges. Throughout it all she has remained slender, and all her health markers are perfect (she is the only sister with good thyroid function - other sister and I both have Hashi's) - but she still has wild mood swings with carbs and I used to feel sorry for her kids. When she was in a binging carby state she would go berserk screaming and yelling at her kids over irrational things - even telling them she could not stand them anymore and planned to put them up for adoption. It made me cringe as it made me think so much of the horrors of my own childhood and my own mother - who in retrospect I think was also a huge carb addict, and I often wonder how all our lives might have been different if Mom had tried a WF/SF diet.

Wow...I've kept up with the posts since Jo started this.

It's amazing to read the other stories of how sugar, carbs and wheat can affect us...the same and different. I find it interesting to see the level to which it has caused us pain, internally and externally.

Though I read this forum and most posts regularly, I feel so ill-equipped to respond but equally compelled to do so.

I just finished the article and posts regarding "forcing" kids to eat healthy and knowing what I do, however limited, how can we do this to our children?

My stepson just returned with the announcement from his mother that he only had gained 1 pound in the last year. The child is 11 (I've been around since he was 8) lazy, unmotivated, medicated for ADHD and for the longest time wouldn't eat a green bean unless it was Green Giant Kitchen Sliced ones...trust me, if you knew me, that didn't go over well in my book.

I only mention DSS because though he is skinny, he sneaks food (wrappers in the laundry etc) I worry he isn't getting enough nourishment. It's been a battle to get him to eat what I have. But bigger than that, what are they teaching these kids in school? He worries all the time about eating fat and getting or being fat.

So is it the crazy indoctrination at school that is causing bad body images and low self-esteem?? Add to that the carb-craver issues and we really create problems for our young people.

I feel for Jo and her daugher...heck, the entire family, as they battle this. Is it something so simple as changing her diet? We all know what a success this WOE can be...the stable blood sugar, attitude, energy, no hunger and no cravings?? It's just so hard to get someone else to see it.

Deanna

And I agree with you up to a point. I'm just saying that Jo, being the mother of a 17yo, is there for more than nutritional advice and given that her daughter lives with a LC advocate I doubt a lack of knowledge is the problem. If that's all it is then spending a few months just sounding out the teenager won't hurt.

I think there are a lot of good pieces of advice that have already been given to you on here, and hopefully have given you some new ways of thinking about things.

I don't know if this post will be of any use to you but I will write it all out anyway :-).

I will start off by saying I am not a parent. But; I have been a fat teenager, and I had parents who were both healthy weight and ate a normal balanced diet, which was free from processed foods. Both were very intelligent, and both were strict and had strong views.

My older brother was beanpole thin and studious, my little sister the ultimate baby faced happy go lucky (also a good weight). I am the middle child.

For the first 8 - 10 years my mam cooked all the bread in the house, there was a limit to how much she could cook and a limit to how much she would give to us. However, by the time I was in double digits I would sit and eat practically the whole loaf. This continued until my mam was forced to buy in bread.

I remember it not being uncommon for me to toast 6 slices (all that fitted in the grill) spread them with chocolate spread and eat them. I would claim it was my reward for doing my homework or something like that. My weight continued to raise.

I have always wondered why I was allowed to do this, since becoming an adult I have looked back and really I struggled to understand (unfortunately my mam died when I was 21).

One thing they always allowed me to do was find myself.

This nearly backfired, as not only am I somewhat addicted to carbs by I soon found an alcohol problem and by the age of 19 I suffered from ruptured stomach ulcers.

However, over this time, my parents where continually supportive of me in the positive points of my life, and trusted that I would eventually sort myself out.

I think there are more issues going on with your young lass than simple carb eating, but what those issues are…………… I don't know.

I wish I could be of more help to you, and I can only imagine how hard it is to see your daughter hurting herself in front of you. I know I regret putting my mam through it.

I really hope you find a solution that allows you to relax.

Thanks for sharing that story, Debbie. I never considered the idea of a massive carb craver who happened not to become obese as a result. I've known people who can eat double what a normal person does everyday and not gain an ounce. I always thought they were just showing off. Perhaps they were carb cravers, too.

My wife is one who can take a bite of a candy bar - set it on the end table and leave it there for days before she decides to have more. Foods that set me off have absolutely no such effect on her. She likes to have candy around should she feel the urge for a bite, but those urges are few and far between. My youngest is just like my wife. She can have a little bit of anything and then she is done. My middle child is a little more complicated. She's not like me and not like my wife. She can get junk food cravings and eat more than she should -- but she also won't eat the junk food if filled up on good food. When I'm craving carbs, I never really feel full. I would be stuffed from eating good food and still follow it up with a hand full of candy from the closet. And another hand full an hour later.

I find it very interesting that a doctor 40 years ago considered your sister's problem physiological. I agree with that 100%. I also found it amazing that the 'solution' was a WF/SF diet. My solution is pretty much the same thing with a few more high carb No-No foods added to my list. It kind of sucks to be a massive carb craver. There are a lot more crazy binging stories in my past - but it is amazing how it can be controlled with the proper diet.