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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 08:05
Malianne's Avatar
Malianne Malianne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,893
 
Plan: Atkins variation
Stats: 167.5/151.5/132 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Question Hi! I'm new: What's wrong? Why no Ketosis?

Hi, All --

I'm new today, though I've been lo-carbing since Nov. 28. -- About one week.

Bi-coastal, swinging back and forth between Malibu and the San Gabriel Mountain area of Southern California on the West Coast and the Boston (North Shore area -- Nahant/Marblehead/Swampscott) area of Massachusetts. Currently on the East Coast.

Tried Atkins many years ago but gave it up because I couldn't stick with it long enough and was disappointed.

This time, I have a strong-willed friend helping steer me. She is a tough task master, but I need that. At first I was eating marginal foods not good for a fast-break from my previous carb-rich lifestyle -- such as nuts. But I have been as pure as a nun for the past two days, at least, and longer if you consider sugar-free gum as allowable (No! Never in front of anyone. Only in the closet!). [I stopped that, though, the day before yesterday since I didn't know whether it was preventing me from reaching ketosis].

So, until I hit ketosis, I am really closely examining all I eat. I cannot seem to make it into the ketosis state. Am now examining potential problems in what I ingest to try to figure out why not. Once I'm into ketosis, then I can adjust my intake of food. But so far, I'm not.

I'm eating mainly beef jerky, beef, eggs, salmon, scallops, various other fish (tilapia, haddock, sardines, etc.) mayonnaise, no-sugar Jell-O (lots of it!), water (with flavoring in it, such as MIO), and an occasional tablespoonful of half-and-half poured over the Jell-O (so far not more than 2-3 Tbsps per day).

Am taking Prilosec (supposed to take it twice a day -- BUT AM WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HAD TROUBLE WITH IT KEEPING YOU OUT OF KETOSIS?

Cannot seem to figure out what is not working. I do drink at least six cups of water per day -- often 8. But have dry mouth (and dry eye, too). The dry mouth is worst at night and tolerable during the day. Which is why I am careful to drink lots of water.

So far I have lost about 3.5 pounds, but that probably is only water weight.

WHY I CAN'T SEEM TO GET INTO A REAL KETOSIS?

(I know that gum chewing is really tacky and offensive, but it kept my mouth moist in the first few days and no one was here to see me, so I did that up until two days ago. When I didn't hit ketosis, I stopped. Why? I read the labels and realized that even though it is sugar-free gum, there are TWO CARBS per stick.)

Now I'm going "no-carb crazy."

If anything has a carb in it, I avoid it. This includes the chewable vitamins I was taking (2 carbs each), fiber pills (2 carbs each -- now eschewed), nuts, low-fat milk.

My cravings for flavor/something interesting were so great at first that I ate a whole bag of Chicharrones (fried pork rinds) all at once. This sort of made my mouth feel way too salty. And since I had high blood pressure, I decided not to O.D. on salt.

So, I've continued to use "Lo-Salt," instead of salt for making things like jerky. This contains lots of potassium, and the vitamins had enough magnesium and other minerals to cover potential shortages there.

So, what's the secret to hitting "ketosis?"

The CVS (Walgreens and CVS sticks are identical) and Bayer sticks I use seem to register me as "Trace," and I've not ever been higher than a borderline trace/low. When and how do I start seeing more convincing showings?

And is it really really important to ONLY READ the Bayer sticks at EXACTLY 15 seconds? They don't seem to develop any real color for about a minute.
The CVS or Walgreen's sticks seem to find their color sooner.

The color of the sticks seems different in natural light and incandescent light, but there are only about 9 - 9 1/2 hours of actual good "daylight" here right now, so reading the sticks can seem inconsistent. The first reading in the morning always seems almost off-the-charts LOW.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks everyone!
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 08:12
LittleZu's Avatar
LittleZu LittleZu is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,099
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/149/130 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Louisiana
Default

I'd try giving up the sugar free Jello and the MIO in your water. (also the gum, but you've already stopped that)

Without looking at the Jello and MIO labels, I can't really tell you how to calculate the carbs in the artificial sweeteners in them, but they should be counted in your daily carb count.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 08:15
honeypie's Avatar
honeypie honeypie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,047
 
Plan: M-F vlc, looser LC wkends
Stats: 353.6/260.8/165 Female 5'11
BF:
Progress: 49%
Default

Ditto re the jello - it NEVER lets me get into ketosis. Or indeed lose anything.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 08:50
Malianne's Avatar
Malianne Malianne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,893
 
Plan: Atkins variation
Stats: 167.5/151.5/132 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Default Thank you. So, Jell-O is a villain?

What is left to eat then, besides eggs and animals?

I wonder whether just the plain gelatin (without maltodextrin in it and without any thing but gelatin) would be okay.

My cravings are pretty strong.

In fact. I am being good so far, but I don't know how long this can go on without getting SOME FAVORABLE response from the ketostix.

Thanks for those who responded about the Jell-O!!

That's pretty amazing. The label says: ZERO carbs! Amazing.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 08:57
Malianne's Avatar
Malianne Malianne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,893
 
Plan: Atkins variation
Stats: 167.5/151.5/132 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Default

~Honeypie --
What DO you eat, then? Thank you for your answer!
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 09:10
Michaelk Michaelk is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 381
 
Plan: Atkins/Reduced dairy
Stats: 280/200/180 Male 5'8
BF:30.4%
Progress: 80%
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Default

I was looking at sugar free jello recently and it contained quite a lot of carbs. I use a low calorie jello and it has only 1 carb per pot.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 09:15
honeypie's Avatar
honeypie honeypie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,047
 
Plan: M-F vlc, looser LC wkends
Stats: 353.6/260.8/165 Female 5'11
BF:
Progress: 49%
Default

I have a verrrrry hard time losing due to various metabolic issues... so for me, it is best to stick to A LOT of eggs, salads, and non-starchy veggies, in order to see results.

A lot of people can include LC cheesecake treats and various other things - but whenever I do, all weight loss grinds to a halt.

You should definitely check out the recipes section though, it might give you some ideas.

Good luck!
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 10:16
LittleZu's Avatar
LittleZu LittleZu is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,099
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/149/130 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Louisiana
Default

Lots of stuff to eat on low carb! There are all kinds of veggies you can have, lots of people do fine with dairy, berries are good for lots of people, nuts in moderation!

I agree with the suggestion you poke around the recipes forum. Also, you check out the thread in the Atkins subforum "What's for dinner tonight?" to get an idea of the kinds of things others are eating.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 10:19
LittleZu's Avatar
LittleZu LittleZu is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,099
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/149/130 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Louisiana
Default

Oh, and regarding labels, processed foods can be very deceptive about carbs. I pretty much avoid all processed foods now. It's easier than working out sugar alcohols and the carbs in artifical sweetners.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 10:45
bobiam bobiam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 886
 
Plan: NANY
Stats: 503/405/175 Male 72 inches
BF:plenty :)
Progress: 30%
Location: Northern Illinois
Default

Commercial jerky products tend to have lots of carbs in them.

I have some issues with cheese. The only way I have found to deal with that problem is to limit how much cheese I eat.

I don't have much in the way of issues with diet gelatin. I use Royal. I don't know if Jello is better or worse.

A lot of products say zero calories and zero carbs on the label but if you look on the ingredient list there are at least some carbs in them. This is because if a serving has less than 5 calories it can be labeled as zero calorie and if it has less then 1/2 a gram of carbs it can be labeled zero carbs.

This can be a big problem if you are eating a lot of these products. The carbs will add up on you, especially since the serving sizes are often much lower than anyone actually eats. My suggestion is to count anything that says zero carbs but has carbs in it as 1/2 a gram per serving.

half and half has a lot of carbs in it. almost 3/4 of a gram per tbsp.

in any case, i would not worry about what the sticks are doing. worry about what the scale is doing. IMO, if you are not losing, you either cannot lose on low carb, or (more likely) your carb intake is too high. you really need to be ruthless in finding any and all hidden carbs in your diet and at least keeping track of them.

some people do ok with sugar alcohols, and others do not. I do OK with glycerin and erythritol but others seem to affect me much like regular carbs do so I stay away from them. i suggest staying away from them and seeing if it is helpful

I do not think most low carbers need to restrict their salt intake as low carbing tends to be somewhat of a diuretic anyway. Dr Atkins even suggested adding salt especially in the first few days to combat flu like symptoms from having low sodium levels.

If you are not keeping meticulous records of what you are eating, I can just about guarantee you are getting more carbs than you think.

Last edited by bobiam : Tue, Dec-04-12 at 10:50.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 10:58
JoanD'Arc's Avatar
JoanD'Arc JoanD'Arc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 535
 
Plan: iDukan, Consolidation
Stats: 174/147/147 Female 5'7"
BF: Goal: < 30%
Progress: 100%
Location: California
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All the water you're drinking is diluting your urine, giving you a trace reading. Don't worry, trace is in, you don't need a darker reading. Keep drinking your water, it helps to flush out the fat.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 11:17
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Unfortunately the urine ketone sticks are not really helpful. If you burn the ketones for fuel, they won't register. If you drink a lot of liquid they'll be too diluted in your urine to measure. Lots of reasons you don't see them.

There are blood ketone meters but the strips are very expensive.

I suggest going by symptoms like dry mouth, odd taste in the mouth, smelly urine and so on.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 12:30
Malianne's Avatar
Malianne Malianne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,893
 
Plan: Atkins variation
Stats: 167.5/151.5/132 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Smile I'm floored by your helpfulness, you guys! Thank you!

This is a really intelligent and smart group of people. Helpful, too!
Thank you so very much Everyone. I cannot tell you how grateful I am for all your terrific suggestions!

Honestly. It was a huge support and a wonderful feeling to read all your answers.

Well, the good thing is that in 8 days, I have lost at least 3 pounds.

~Michael. The only "carb" I saw on the sugar-free "no-carb" Jell-O I was eating (and drinking) was maltodextrin. When I looked that up, I learned that it always was added in such minute proportions in various foods that it wasn't ever considered a carb, especially when there were no calories in what was being consumed. I take all this with a grain of salt though. (Ooops, sorry for the bad pun). Corporations being what they are, want you to buy their product, so why would the tell us that if you consume it in large quantities, a hidden carb will be become a real carb and that this can affect diets. So, now I am warned about Jell-O, and will limit my use of it.

~ Nancy L.C.: Very helpful remarks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Unfortunately the urine ketone sticks are not really helpful. If you burn the ketones for fuel, they won't register. If you drink a lot of liquid they'll be too diluted in your urine to measure. Lots of reasons you don't see them. . . . I suggest going by symptoms like dry mouth, odd taste in the mouth, smelly urine and so on.
Can you elaborate a bit more? If you're on a very low carb diet, and your liver has used up all the glycogen and is producing ketones, then it is the ketones that are supposed to be burned for fuel, right? They are supposed to provide the alternative energy source, I thought. I was not a science major, so I don't have a background in bio-chemistry. But this was my understanding, anyway. So, if you have ketone-measuring sticks, then you're saying that if you exercise, the ketone is NOT discharged in urine because it is used during the exercise?

~Joan D'Arc for the encouragement. It is good to know that water can dilute the reading. How do you know this? Isn't a ketone a ketone? How do those ketone sticks work, anyway? What determines whether you have a low or high reading. I'm glad to hear that "Trace is in."

[I'm intentionally not exercising right now -- as I am just beginning -- because that is one more variable that could upset the balance here, and I want to get into ketosis and see what's going on before I start making things more complicated. I don't know if I could deal with the additional hunger, and possible cravings. I might binge on watermelon or something!]

~Bobiam: I make my own jerky, and all it has in it is meat, pepper, garlic powder, sometimes a tiny bit of dried onion, and either Lo-Salt or No-Salt. Everything tastes too salty to me right now, or I'd use regular salt. As for the half-and-half, I'm not sure why Atkins folks say cheese is okay but milk or half and half are not. It's the same thing. Anyway, I had only 2 TBSPs of Half-and-half yesterday. And according to the carton, that is only one carb.

If I total all the carbs I ate yesterday (according to the labels on the products), I had 2 carbs the whole day. One was in the vitamin pill that I chewed up (capsules or coated vitamins make the throw up sometimes and make me feel nauseated), and the other was in the half-and-half. That isn't many carbs. I am AMAZED that it takes so few carbs to throw off this diet.

However, I suppose we are talking about how our livers function, right?

If our bodies are able to produce enough alternative energy sources for the body to think and move and function.

~LittleZu --thank you for all your ideas on what to eat. Those things have far too many carbs for me right now. I hope I can eat them once I feel that, in fact, I actually AM in ketosis. For the time being, I have ruled out anything like berries. In fact, even kale and lettuce are ruled out. I want the satisfacton of "being in ketosis," like my strict girlffriend, who is helping me stick with this difficult challenge. Hers were pink and purple . . . .she got into a deep ketosis and lost a ton of weight.

I suppose the upside is that even though I'm heavier than I want to be, I am not corpulent or obese. At least I still have some shape. But there is too much of it!!!!! I CANNOT GO UP ONE MORE SIZE IN CLOTHES. My BMI, now, is officially at the borderline limit, if not a bit over. Which means, yes, Ann (er, rather, Malibanne) you ARE overweight, like it or not. So, I will save those delicious recipes for after I KNOW I'm in real Ketosis and have some way to measure it or monitor it.

Maybe I am now, based on what Nancy LC and Joan D'Arc said. I had hoped, or thought I might be able to use them as a guide. I don't want to eat some new thing (kale, for example) and suddenly fall out of ketosis because of it. And lose a week of time. I would really hate to go through the whole introduction phase all over again. Now that I am "IN" I want to stay in until I lose what I want to lose.

I AM writing things down -- but there isn't much to write down, ha, ha! Just sirloin, round steak, salmon, eggs, sometimes Baby Bel cheese (not often), occasionally Jack cheese (not often), pork, Tilapia . . . and scallops. No veggies. Some lecithin. The MIO. And today I've been allowing myself some Schveppes sugar-free ginger ale and Diet Mug root beer. Normally, I stick to Perrier or Pellegrino, but I crave a sweet taste right now. Normally I do not ever us artificial anything. And never chew gum, either. But the dry mouth was killing me.

~ LittleZu, HoneyPie, and MichaelK: Thanks so much for your posts and insights. Everything everyone is saying is a tremendous help in giving me insights and bolstering my commitment!
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 14:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

It doesn't really have much to do with exercise or not, they do become an alternative energy source for your brain and other tissues. You do have basic metabolic requirements even if you're sitting on the sofa watching TV all day and ketones can supply that.

Some people just can't turn those darn strips for a variety of reasons. We have some people here doing blood ketone checking (me, for one) and some of us have plenty of ketones in the blood (they're a different sort than the ones that are excreted via urine) but can't turn a stick purple for anything. We call having ketones > .5 via blood "Nutritional Ketosis", or "NK".

Since I started LC diet I wasn't ever able to register more than a trace on the urine sticks, but I have gotten up to 1.1 via blood.

Also, 2 days isn't long enough. After two weeks, give it another shot. But don't freak out if you don't turn your stick purple. Invest in the blood meter if you find it that dire, or go by your physical symptoms.

Read Phinney/Volek's book on Low Carbohydrate living if you want a more detailed description.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Dec-04-12, 20:43
JoanD'Arc's Avatar
JoanD'Arc JoanD'Arc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 535
 
Plan: iDukan, Consolidation
Stats: 174/147/147 Female 5'7"
BF: Goal: < 30%
Progress: 100%
Location: California
Default

Ketones are small carbon fragments created by the breakdown of fat stores. They get expelled from the body through the skin and lungs as well as urine. By drinking a lot of water you are simply diluting the amount of ketones in the urine. If I get a dark reading I consider it a warning sign that I'm not drinking enough water.

When I start induction it tends to take only two or three days for me to see a trace reading. I do eat sugar-free jello to get through cravings until I am in. Then the cravings go away and I sometimes have to remind myself to eat.
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