But it's not really a "better" way. Give it a try, by all means, and lowering carbs is only going to do you good. But what about all your other meals? Are each of them going to feature a carby element you can't give up?

Leebase, it's really good that you found something that works for you. Some of us can't count calories and stay at our daily goal, and eat moderate portions, as you say, if we're eating too high a total number of carbs. For some people that only depends upon the "quality" of the carb. For others of us, it's just total carbs, period.

I can see that your plan has worked for you and you're doing great.

A diet you stick with is infinitely better than one you don't. And sure, for one meal, I can do most anything. For every meal, months on end? Not so much. Add traveling 30 to 40 weeks a year...eating out 3 meals a day, 4 to 5 days a week...?

Now, if I was complaining about not being able to lose weight, I could understand some of the feedback I'm getting. As I am losing weight, exercising more, eating much more healthy....well, it's a bit odd.

Well, that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia, has a basic list :-). But the insulin index is relatively new and there are not as many studies. In Dr. Cordain's new book, Paleo Answer, his lab and some others in Europe have focussed on the differences in dairy. The book lists the following for the GI and II:
White Bread. 72. 100
Skim Milk. 32. 90
Whole milk. 27. 90
Reduced Fat
Yogurt. 27. 115
NonFat
Yogurt. 24. 115

Only one human study in 2005; young boys who became insulin resistent in one week. http://thepaleodiet.com/qa-with-dr-cordain-milk/

That is one beautifully photographed and tasty looking meal!
Very LCHF and Primal too.

I haven't read the paleo or primal books yet. They came out while I was unconcerned and gaining weight

That meal of mine had 24g of carbs...and I had 98 for the day. It's an example of the best I can do...but I can't yet do it for every meal. The thing I liked about what I learned from WW, is to start where you are and improve.

I realize I'm not getting the benefits from a ketogenic diet....and yet i am benefitting from a diet I can follow and am continuing to improve

Well you do seem to emphasize eating the way you want quite a bit. That is A priority for MOST of us, but then again, for MOST of us it is not THE priority. If it were, we'd all be eating the way we USED to before we took control, reorganized our priorities, and began to restrict ourselves. Those were certainly diets we could 'stick with', but that didn't make them better. The main benefit of your chosen diet, from what I can tell, is simply the fact that it suits you. But, so many people here are following a much different plan, and you seem to already know that. Restriction to the extreme is certainly not a virtue, but neither is lack of restriction to the extreme, we all have to follow a certain level of restriction, self-control. The feedback you get on your chosen plan DOES sound confusing to me, too, but I'm equally confused by your requests for feedback. It's hard for me to understand what feedback you are hoping to get, what support you want, from a group of people who don't follow 'your' plan? Because that's what people are trying to do, when someone responds to a post here on this board it is to offer some form of support, but, we are a bit in the dark as to what support you need, so I think that's why you're seeing the varying responses you're seeing.

Anything under 100 grams of carbs is "low carb" in my book. You're a man. 100 grams to you might be like 50 to 60 for a woman due to the differences in size and muscle mass. Especially within the context of overall calorie restriction.


100 grams per day is where I START most of my clients. Then we gradually titrate down from there according to how the person seems to respond. I would NEVER dream of taking a person who eats 300 grams of carbs per day all the way down to 20 grams in one day. That is bound to cause unpleasant side-effects, and just no need for it. I'm all about GRADUAL reductions, just as much as I'm about GRADUALLY increasing the amount of weight one lifts in workouts.

I personally generally eat about 70 to 75 grams per day. Though I am flirting with the notion of going down closer to 50-60 range.

But some folks obviously do much better on full-blown keto.

Others feel like CRAP on keto, even after long period of adaptation.

No one diet fits all, that's for sure.

Regarding eating out...I have many clients that eat out all the time due to business and travelling so much. I actually find LC much, much easier to follow when eating out than a low-fat diet.

When on a low-fat diet, and eating out, you are forced to subsist on dry, tasteless plates of skinless chicken breasts and broccoli. Maybe a bit of fish. Yuk!

But on LC I can have a steak and salad. I can order a burger without bun or fries. I can go to McDonald's and eat a DBL Quarter Pound with Cheese, minus the bun. Or at least just one of the buns, rather than both. Most places have a decent chef salad. Jasons deli has a beanless chili and salad bar.

I fully agree with your comments on the extreme importance of a diet being doable for a person as a life-style. And that is going to vary from person to person. I'd rather see you eat those 100 carbs per day and stick with the plan, than drop ya down to 50 per day only to have you chuck the whole thing.

Overly rigid and inflexible dietary patterns are the hallmark of failed dieters. Those who succeed long-term tend to be less dichotomous in their thinking. being "overly rigid" may be required for a diabetic, epileptic, etc....but being a bit flexible (But not overly flexible) is a better strategy for long-term compliance.

Ultimately we all do what suits us even if temporarily.

Yo yoing btw LC and SAD seems to be a popular option.

I agree that being able to stick w a plan is better....and there are many LC plans that include starch.

SBD, for instance, is pretty specific about quantity where as others might say since it's a 'safe' starch, no worries.

My question is; safe for who?

When adding starch/carb, the most important thing whether it's wheat or watermelon; is this what is satisfying w/o triggering bad behavior? Or in the case of those who monitor; how does it effect my BG? And of course the issue of quantity...did any of the ill effects have to do w quantity? Hmmmmm

We make our own choices and because one chooses to add starch does not mean that it is no longer LC.

I for one do not care about ketosis. It did not help me lose.

How's it working for you? For the long term......

It's SORT OF true that "low glycemic load" helps prevent "spikes" in glucose/insulin. If you charted your glucose/insulin levels on a graph there'd be a more gently undulating up and down curve for both, as compared to eating lots of wonder bread and white taters for instance. And yet the TOTAL AMOUNT of insulin and glucose would still be relatively high. Now that may not be an issue for a young, lean and active person. All they need to do is eat "good carbs" and they tend to do ok.

But for the rest of us...those over age 40 who do not participate in sports for hours per day...and who simply do not have the insulin sensitivity we had when young due to age, sleep deprivation, stress and everything else that screws your ability to process glucose like a normal person...a low glycemic load diet often just will not cut it.

Thus we must also eat less of ALL carbs. Even so-called good ones.

Yes, natural carbs are far better than SAD carbs. I basically feed my two kids a low to moderate glycemic load diet. They eat Ezekiel bread most every day. They eat fruit, etc.

But I can't eat much of those foods. I could in my younger days. But no longer. I must restrict ALL carbs.

And "carbs" aren't just about how much you weigh or hunger control. You mentioned you have not read up on paleo yet? I'm not a paleo guy per-se, but I do agree with much paleo theory. As you get into that eventually, you'll learn how many, many folks get their health really screwed up by wheat and other "good carb" foods. In fact, whole-grains can actually do MORE harm to some folks than white rice! They simply can not handle much grain fiber. Or gluten. Or Phytates. That's why you'll see some in the paleo crowd who follow a higher carb version of paleo actually eating HIGH GI white rice, as it is low in bran, anti-nutrients and gluten-free.

So have I totally confused you yet? There's a saying...if you aren't at least a little confused about nutrition then you simply haven't studied it much.

I had a feeling you were doing 100 a day. Which is a vast improvement over what you were doing before, I'm sure. And you are losing on it, which is great; but it is, I feel confident stating, a carb level that will stall you out at some point.

One of the keys to low carb maintenance is to figure out a carb level that will keep us at the weight we want to be. I can do 50 a day, with all kinds of fruit, Greek yogurt, nuts, a square or two of dark chocolate, a rum or tequila cocktail with a low carb mixer along with my eggs and meat and vegetables. I eat to my heart's content and I'm never hungry and I find it easy to stay away from the higher carb stuff.

But if I were to eat those same 50 a day with legumes and starchy vegetables and grains; it doesn't work. They make me hungry. I eat more often. I want to eat more of the legumes and starchy vegetables and grains.

Likewise, you will discover where you will be when you are eating 100 carbs a day. That is where your weight loss will stop. Where you will be and how long it will take, no one knows.

But be prepared for the next step.

A journey of a 1000 miles is begun with the first step, or something like that.

I know a lot of people are very, very attached to carbs and the prospect of adopting to a new way of eating for life is quite daunting.

A lot of folks here are well into their journey and completely comfortable with where they are and have forgotten how difficult that first step was. It's something to keep in mind as you read responses.

Hopefully, as your journey continues you'll feel more comfortable with this WOE and you'll feel much healthier and it'll start to make sense to you.

If I was eating the way I used too...I'd way about 320 by now. Instead I weigh 273 because I have changed what I'm eating. Yes, having failed to stick to LC before, it is a very high priority for me to find a WOE that I can lose weight AND stick to. The "sticking too" is the difference between losing 20 or 30 lbs, and then gaining all of it back and 40 more...which is what happened last time.



3 and a half months and I'm still on the diet, not even close to giving up, not resenting it. What's not to like? Lost 36lbs so far, 5" off my belly and waist, 2.5" off my neck. I can now buckle the airline seat belt, and dropped from 2XL-Tall to 2X (meaning I don't have to shop in Big and Tall anymore)...why shouldn't I like that? I'm far more active than before, walking or biking 30min to 60min 5 days a week...and taking far fewer naps. What's not to like? I'm sleeping at night without need of sleeping pills, and I should be on track to not need my high blood pressure medicine. What's not to like about that?



What is confusing about a request for people's thoughts on Glycemic Load? I don't have a strong opinion, it seems like a way to judge between options. So I simply asked. Apparently, GL is not well regarded by the folks participating on this thread. That doesn't cause me any problems. I asked, people gave their opinion.



Clearly, everyone isn't on the same plan. In this very thread there are those in favor of very strict low car induction phases, and those not so much. This board has both Atkins and SBD...very different plans. I didn't post in either of those forums because I'm not following either plan. I posted in the general section.

Keeping in mind that I didn't start this time around with LC...but looking at my MyFitnessPal reports....I was at 180-270g of carb 90 days ago. The last month I'm at 90-180. Losing weight the whole time because a fat man can eat a lot and still lose weight. Easting less as the weight comes off. You can almost see the day I started reading Gary Taubes book as there is a steep drop off around a month ago.



What I find difficult is getting decent vegetables. And, of course, it's quite tempting to order stuff one shouldn't even when healthier options are available.

And yes, I would hate a low fat diet much more.



At this point I'm not about the buns and the pasta. It's the notion of giving up fruits and vegetables (ok, not giving up completely, but severely restricting). We can all agree not to drink sugared soda, cake and the like. I do eat chips occasionally...well, most anything occasionally. I just use portion control and keep track of my calories.



Amen. One of the things that kept me off LC was the notion that it was all or nothing. That if you weren't in ketosis, then the diet wouldn't work. Well, now, for me -- it's not about just losing weight. Calorie restriction is helping me lose weight. I'm just trying to move more to LCHF as it should be healthier.

What is better than Glycemic Load is how your own body reacts to certain foods. I don't eat anything that makes me hungrier than when I started.

It may turn out to be true for me as well. I'm "benefiting" from being a fat man. At 309, I can eat as much as would sustain a 295lb man and lose weight. Of course, when I get to 179 (my goal weight), if I were to eat like a 295lb man, I'd gain weight and become that 295lb man.

This notion is one of the things I liked about WW. You really don't have to jump straight to a perfectly healthy diet. You just have to eat better than you have been. As you lose weight, you have time to improve your diet and your fitness.



So funny you mentioned this. I just recorded a podcast titled "Circle of Confusion" (haven't posted them anywhere yet). Yes, it is confusing. Yes, I'm continuing to learn. Yes, I like hearing different theories and points of view. Yes, it is frustrating that there seems to be no "absolute truth". Everyone seems to have scientific evidence to back up very disparate claims.

So yeah...I'm working out my own journey. Some on the WW forums didn't like it that I still had fond thoughts about what I learned when I was doing Atkins. Apparently, some here are uncomfortable that I haven't thrown everything I learned on WW out the window and I'm looking to ease into LCHF.