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  #46   ^
Old Sun, Jul-22-12, 13:56
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
If you add fat, wouldn't the percentage of protein go down, and the percent of fat go up? did you mean, "keep protein at this amount of grams and add fat" ?

Yes, you are correct. I meant to say... at the number of grams I am eating now or even a bit higher as I am allowed more than I am eating now, not the percentage.

Thank you, I edited the post.

Last edited by Aradasky : Sun, Jul-22-12 at 14:04.
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  #47   ^
Old Sun, Jul-22-12, 13:59
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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okay thanks
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 08:23
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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DAY 8 July 23, 2012

Weight 150.2 (Holey catfish… )
Fasting glucose 81
Fasting Ketones .4 *

1656 calories (I just was not hungry)
26 g carbs (15 net)
76 g protein
144 g fat


*I really expected this to be at .5 especially after I weighed myself this morning. As I said yesterday, the horrible dustball, dry mouth is almost gone, hardly anything like what it was. My eyes are also not dry. I am still wondering how Jimmy Moore reached .5 in two days….I walked 6 miles yesterday, and am going to the gym this morning to lift weights.

I ate an ounce more protein yesterday, for dinner, and was so full I had to talk myself into my evening snack. ( a good thing!) If it is this hard in the future, I will have adjust my fat intake during the day to include more and not wait until the end of the day.

Last edited by Aradasky : Mon, Jul-23-12 at 20:53.
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  #49   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 10:04
IF.Blogger's Avatar
IF.Blogger IF.Blogger is offline
"Just keep swimming"
Posts: 2,543
 
Plan: LCHF (Low Carb/High Fat)
Stats: 199/165/145 Female 63 3/4 inches
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: USA
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Hi there Arlene. I have been following your experiment with interest. I am recently off the hCG protocol and learned a great deal about my diabetic responses to food while on the protocol. My phase 3 diet is very different from how I used to eat because of what I learned, and there will not be a phase 4 with increased carbs for me.

What I learned about my diabetes was how sensitive I am to tiny amounts of carbs and to eating more protein than I require. Just a few low-carb strawberries causes blood sugar jumps, but more annoying, they cause major hunger. Eating more protein than I need causes spikes in my fasting blood sugar the next morning.

What interests me in particular about your journey is the effect that a day of eating carbs might affect our ketone-burning status. Is our body so inclined to go back to burning glucose that it truly takes us days to convert back to burning ketones? Interesting stuff!

Thank you for sharing with us!
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  #50   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 10:20
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aradasky
*I really expected this to be at .5 especially after I weighed myself this morning. As I said yesterday, the horrible dustball, dry mouth is almost gone, hardly anything like what it was. My eyes are also not dry. I am still wondering how Jimmy Moore reached .5 in two days….I walked 6 miles yesterday, and am going to the gym this morning to lift weights.

He's a dude and youngish, isn't he?

I have a feeling those of us women who are having a lot of difficulties losing on LC or even VLC have difficulties reaching that level of ketosis.
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  #51   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 11:00
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
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I agree, Nancy. I am wondering now if I ever truly reached deep ketosis at all. I know I never lose my appetite for food, and I certainly never 'forget' to eat. lol. I wonder if those ketones sticks are available in Canada. I'd like to try and test myself.
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 11:30
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Arlene, the calorie counts you quoted seem extremely high for a small, woman of what I'm guessing your age might be. Are you sure they take into account your height, gender and age?
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 12:18
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
He's a dude and youngish, isn't he?

I have a feeling those of us women who are having a lot of difficulties losing on LC or even VLC have difficulties reaching that level of ketosis.


My first thought was a bit different: that he's controlling carb/protein sufficiently for his pancreas to output little enough insulin to have allowed serum ketones to climb quickly.

So there might also be several non-gender based measures that cause the difference, including: his pancreas makes less insulin than Arlene's; he found the optimal carb level for his serum ketones faster than Arlene has; he found the optimal protein level for his serum ketones faster than Arlene has. These are dependent on genetics and luck of starting point.

Add into that gender differences like burning through liver glycogen faster, and/or whatever testosterone gives you for lipolysis that we don't get (although estrogen is supposedly lipolytic), and guys have got an advantage raising serum ketones all right.
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  #54   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 15:01
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IF.Blogger
Hi there Arlene. I have been following your experiment with interest. I am recently off the hCG protocol and learned a great deal about my diabetic responses to food while on the protocol. My phase 3 diet is very different from how I used to eat because of what I learned, and there will not be a phase 4 with increased carbs for me.

What I learned about my diabetes was how sensitive I am to tiny amounts of carbs and to eating more protein than I require. Just a few low-carb strawberries causes blood sugar jumps, but more annoying, they cause major hunger. Eating more protein than I need causes spikes in my fasting blood sugar the next morning.

What interests me in particular about your journey is the effect that a day of eating carbs might affect our ketone-burning status. Is our body so inclined to go back to burning glucose that it truly takes us days to convert back to burning ketones? Interesting stuff!

Thank you for sharing with us!


Yes, it will be very interesting to watch that process. I think I am seeing a real reaction to my eating less protein. I am losing faster than I thougth I would. And as I went to .4 my fasting glucose leveled out.
I am going to try to stay in NK for at least a week or more. Dr Phinney says the process is till fine tuning itself for several weeks after it is reached..... This experiment may take a while, but I am fine with that as I am happy with the food.

Last edited by Aradasky : Mon, Jul-23-12 at 15:30.
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  #55   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 15:02
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fauve
I agree, Nancy. I am wondering now if I ever truly reached deep ketosis at all. I know I never lose my appetite for food, and I certainly never 'forget' to eat. lol. I wonder if those ketones sticks are available in Canada. I'd like to try and test myself.

Yes, they are available and cheaper than we can get them here. I ordered some but they have not come yet.
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  #56   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 15:09
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZigeuner
My first thought was a bit different: that he's controlling carb/protein sufficiently for his pancreas to output little enough insulin to have allowed serum ketones to climb quickly.

So there might also be several non-gender based measures that cause the difference, including: his pancreas makes less insulin than Arlene's; he found the optimal carb level for his serum ketones faster than Arlene has; he found the optimal protein level for his serum ketones faster than Arlene has. These are dependent on genetics and luck of starting point.

Add into that gender differences like burning through liver glycogen faster, and/or whatever testosterone gives you for lipolysis that we don't get (although estrogen is supposedly lipolytic), and guys have got an advantage raising serum ketones all right.

Interesting, and he has not posted his menues yet. He should be eating at least the minimum grams of protein, tho, if he wants to be able to recommend this to others.

We are told several times, in The A&S of Low Carb Living that getting into full nutritional ketosis usually takes at least a week and sometimes two. I was on a pretty low carb and protein level for a few days, but not tracking, before I started this. I could expect him to fall into NK faster than me, he is bigger, and may be exercising hours a day, and for all I know, he was eating pretty much this way for a while before his strips arrived and he started testing.

I expected it to take at least a week or two for me to get there.
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  #57   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 15:25
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Arlene, the calorie counts you quoted seem extremely high for a small, woman of what I'm guessing your age might be. Are you sure they take into account your height, gender and age?

Hi Nancy,
Page 207 of the book
"Yes, when very heavy people lose a lot of weight, both their resting energy expenditure and the energy cost of 'getting around' are somewhat reduced. But then, so are the impediments (both physical and psychological) to being more active. Thus this individual might reasonably be expected to be burning 2800 kcal per day after his 50 pound loss. As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone who has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30 kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are quite conservative expenditure values."

I agree, Nancy, that the example they used was a 5'10" very obese man, however, the formula looks to me to be specific to how active one is and weight. I consider my self moderately active.

I am losing weight on 1850 or so calories of which I am glad, but the speed for the last few pounds is surprising. I must be eating lower than the number of calories I thought I needed for maintanence OR fat calories are matabolized differently........... If I stall or gain, then I will look at the calories and the amount of protein I am eating. I also feel the smaller amount of protein is helping this loss, not as much to cause insulin production.

Last edited by Aradasky : Mon, Jul-23-12 at 19:15.
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  #58   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 18:14
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Interesting! And yes, you are losing weight. Yay! I'm not sure you're as metabolically resistant as I am though. I've been stalled for many years and even regaining like Jimmy did.

Oh, I just ordered the book. First LC book I've ordered in a long, long time!
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  #59   ^
Old Mon, Jul-23-12, 19:18
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Interesting! And yes, you are losing weight. Yay! I'm not sure you're as metabolically resistant as I am though. I've been stalled for many years and even regaining like Jimmy did.

Oh, I just ordered the book. First LC book I've ordered in a long, long time!


Nancy, I got it because of the Eades blog. He called it the best LC book out there. I hope what I am doing here and maybe learn from the book, help you. I am insulin resistant and I suspect this is one reason this is working right now. I really have no expectations other than learning how to stay healthy and not regain my weight.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...-book-in-print/

Last edited by Aradasky : Mon, Jul-23-12 at 20:48.
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  #60   ^
Old Tue, Jul-24-12, 08:03
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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DAY 9 July 24, 2012
Weight 149.8 (down 3.5 lbs in 8 days)
Fasting Glucose 86

1898 calories
32 g carbs (17 net)
87 g protein
164 g fat


I am going to try to add more calories in today, to keep it up to the 1800 level. Have to drink some cream or add another Tbs of coconut oil.

I got the strips I ordered from Canada and they are the same. About $2 a piece vs 6 dollars from Amazon. I did find out that after the order, they send you an email that tells you to call them, if you don't they call you and basically ask you to repeat the order to confirm it. I was not happy about that, but I did NOT have to give out my full credit card number on the phone so that was good. For this price and if I can't convince a local pharmacy to order, then I will buy from them again, if I need more.
Here is the Precision Xtra Advantage meter I am using, it is well priced.
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Adv...9&creative=9325

And here are the Canadian strips.
http://www.universaldrugstore.com/m...nes+Test+Strips

Last edited by Aradasky : Tue, Jul-24-12 at 18:39.
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