Wow, Zuleikaa, you are now officially my CAD Goddess!

Everything you've said makes so much sense to me, especially the explanation of why Atkins stops working for carb addicts. I can't thank you enough.

I really do feel as if I've found my way with LCing. I've added a few carbs to my evening meal since I switched plans on Monday, and I've magically dropped 2.5#!! The very best part of it, though, is that I'm relaxed about this whole WOE for the first time since starting Atkins in September. Somehow, I could DO Atkins, but it didn't quite feel right to me. Now, I'm feeling very optimistic.

Thanks again, Zuleikaa, and Hey Skyspinner--Aren't we learning a ton??

(genuflecting deeply and repeatedly) "We're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy"!!!

Thank you so much for all the info...keep it coming!

I had a great CALP day......even may have lost a bit this AM. A week or so should tell the tale, but for now, I'm just enjoying life again.....

Take care all.....and HAPPY HALLOWE'EN!!!!!

I'm Laughing, I'm Laughing!!!

Thank you both so much, you have made my day!!

I have to very careful what I say on the other boards. I don't want to be accused on touting any particular LC plan. But sometimes, especially when a person has been stalled for month's, I really have to gag myself because I so want to tell them "Of course this doesn't work for you, once you're off induction. You are a carbohydrate addict!!! Go to CAD.

If I do mention CAD the response is that some people can't control themselves at the reward meal and though it might work for me it doesn't work for everybody. That is so true and that is my point. One size diet does not fit all! If you cannot control yourself at the reward meal, just like in Atkins, you have to search the rest of your meals for hidden carbs. In addition, just having more than 4 meals a day can also cause a surge.

Thank's for letting me rant!

Again, I appreciate you both appreciating me.

Though carb allergy and carb addiction produce the same results, an uncontrollable appetite for carbs and binging, the two conditions are not alike in their causes, physical reactions and necessary treatments.

Carb allergy is a food allergy to a particular class of carbs, i.e. grains, sugars. It is like other food allergies such as dairy and yeast producing foods in that eating the food can cause a reactive increased appetite for that particular food allergen. Carb allergists' physical results, unlike those of a carb addict, can result in bloating, water retension, swollen joints, gas, diarhea, vomiting, mental fogginess and disorientation, skin eruptions and flu like symptoms. As you can see these are all negative symptoms and can make you feel very ill. Low carb diets other than CAD are the appropriate treatment for this condition as they eliminate, minimize exposure to allergens. Generally, carb allergists don't react this way to carb vegetables and fake sugars.
So, yes, I need to correct myself. Carb allergists can not control themselves at a Reward Meal. They are reacting to a food allergen!

On the other hand, carb addicts react to carbs as a group and can have a reaction, yes, to grains and sugars but also to carb vegetables, even broccoli! , and fake sugars. A carb addict's physical results, unlike those of the carb allegist, include pleasure and a sense of satisfaction and not the negative physical ones above. In addition, the carb addict can feel sleepy, lethargic and drugged. But that is the point. Carbohydrates are a drug to the carbohydrate addict. Think of a heroin addict. He gets a high when using the drug but as time goes on the pleasure period gets shorter and requires higher doses and more frequent applications to attain. The same is true of a carb addict, except where the heroin addict cycles over a period of time, the carb addict cycles many times in a day. In fact every time he/she eats or eats carbs.

So you can see that you have physical reactions, i.e. craving and binging, that are the same in both cases but their underlying causes and treatments are very different. Put a carb allergist on CAD and it won't work for them. At the same time, putting a carb addict on Atkins, other than the induction phase, or one of the more moderate low carb plans won't work for them either.

I think one of the determining factors in answering the question "Carb allergy or carb addict?" is the person in question's reaction to fake sugars and sugar alcohols. Consuming fake sugars and sugar alcohols seem to bother only "true" carb addicts (my feeling). A "true" carb addict reacts to anything carb or carb tasting, while carb allergists react only to their specific allergen(s). Another sign of a carb addict is an increased appetite or carb craving resulting from eating more than four times a day.

Thanks for your patience in letting me get this off my chest!

I love you gals!!!

SOOOO...

It seems to me, as I think you've already said somewhere, that the only way to find out where you fall on the spectrum is to experiment with different plans until you find the one that "clicks" with your body--correct? Is it not all about getting to know your body and working with what you've got? I think this explains why, after I stalled after Induction on Atkins without cheating at all, a simple switch to CALP just felt so right to me, and I believe it was both physically and mentally.

I looked back at some of my postings earlier this week and realized that I said several times how relaxed I felt and this wasn't because I could "treat" myself to carbs or anything like that. The truth is that I've added very few carbs to my evening meal as I haven't really wanted them. But, obviously what I have added is just right for me because I feel better physically, my system is working better and my attitude is terrific.

Another thing has dawned on me, too. In the beginning, I believe Atkins was attractive to me not only for the promised fast weight loss but for the "unlimited" foods one could eat, because I was hungry all the time. But, after getting all the carbs and sugars out of my body, that constant hunger has disappeared and now it's all about finding balance, not volume. An awful lot of carbs are like "filler" and I just don't seem to need that any more. I also know that if I lit into a carb fest that I would feel like crud and probably want more, and I'm not about to give up the feeling that my hunger is now "normal" and under control.

Geez, I didn't mean to write a sermon here, but thanks for listening and I hope it makes sense. Keep the information coming, Zuleikaa!!

Judy

You are exactly right!

It is all about body chemistry and what plan works with your particular body chemistry. Body chemistries are not one size fits all either.

The relief you feel and the mental almost sense of rightness you now enjoy with CAD just confirms, as you said, that this is where you were meant to be. And you are also exactly right in that often you don't want a lot of carbs. It is an addiction! And once that addiction is controlled, appetite returns to normal, hunger is gone, cravings are gone and you truely know what it is to feel satisfied and hungering/craving no more!

Hi, Zuleika! Say, I am wondering...just who is it who is sitting on your freedom to discuss these things? Is there a BBS policy against espousing any particular plan?

I for one, am very glad to have the opportunity to hear this stuff....I danged sure ain't getting it any other way! I never heard about Rachael Heller trying Atkins, or that leaving Induction causes stalls in carb addicts. Did you read this somewhere or other? Or is it just common knowledge among the groups that i missed somehow?

Whatever, please don't stop!!!!! Keep it coming. This business about the diff between addiction and allergy is very interesting. I never knew that!

Well, Judy, looks as if we've started someting here...., little "trouble-makers" that we are!


But I'm feeling GREAT this AM....after what could be considered a disasterous day yesterday. I'm loving this!

Many, many thanks for all the help and knowledge.

Ditto. I second you, SkySpinner.

Keep up the great posts, Zuleika!

Julie

Amen, Sister!!

I'm all for getting as much information as possible. How else can we make modifications without knowing what to try?

Zuleika--I haven't said this before, but a big CONGRATS on your weight loss so far! I'm assuming most of it has been with CAD since you've got so much information and so many insights. Way to go, girl!

Skyspinner--Yes, we really are a couple of stinkers! Isn't it great, though, that we came to this thread and CAD/CALP at the same time? It's much more fun to learn by the buddy system!

Can I make one observation--actually two? In my opinion the CALP book is poorly written, and I find myself with as many questions as answers when I read it. Also, the CA website isn't much better and is so limited. Do you agree? I did see the Hellers on the Rosie show some time ago and, dare I say, they were a bit "different"!

Sky Spinner, Julie

Thanks for the support! I really need it after the slam I just got from Rosebud on this board for my posting of CAD/CALP overview and rules.

Rachel Heller in CAD or CALP listed all the diets she tried and Atkins was on the list. She stated that she initiallly lost weight on all the diets but then stalled and gained and wound up even heavier than before. She/they also explains how eating multiple times a day (over 4) or carbs in the form of unlimited amounts of healthy vegetables can cause stalls and insulin reactions. In CALP they speak especially about the triggers of fake sugars, sugar free drinks and MSG.

I have been living with this plan for years. Believe me I know it and understand it very well.

Zuleika, as I believe I made quite clear, all I object to is your untrue statement that leaving Atkins Induction causes increased hunger and binging. Just because Atkins does not suit you, does not mean it does not suit many other carb addicted people.

Rosebud

No, I hadn't heard about Rachel Heller having tried many diets, but then I haven't read the CAD or CALP books.

I also have not heard that leaving Induction causes stalls. I KNOW I am/was a carb addict and will probably always have a problem with them. But I have been on Atkins for 4 years and when I increase the carbs as recommended (5 grams daily per week), I keep on losing and don't feel hungry until I get to my CCLL. Then I still don't feel very hungry, but I decrease the carbs and start losing again. My slow losses with some gains are due to the emotional or 'excuse" eating I allow myself to do. (Also medications and 2 major surgeries in the last 3 years.)

Refering only to the "leaving Induction causes stalls in carb addicts", it is certainly not common knowledge because, in general, it isn't true. It may very well be the case in some individuals.



No one. I think that members are free to discuss any LC plan and follow any LC plan they choose, including their own personal version which may be taken from many plans. And members are free to post their opinions. Members should be careful to state that something is their own opinion, because if they post 'facts' which are not true, other members are free to point out the error.

In all cases, it is hoped that members will give each other the benefit of the doubt when someone disagrees before taking umbrage.

Hi everyone! I saw this thread in Skyspinners journal. and I wanted to join in on all the fun too.

I am a succesful (not very long on the program) switcher from Atkins to CALP. And I love it! Lost 7 pounds since last monday almost 2 weeks. And before I was stuck for 2 months not losing a thing. Don't you think this WOE is so much easier than most plans? Have a great CAD/CALP weekend yall! Dru

Sometimes, it seems, just changing your diet will shake things up for your body and get it back on the weight loss track. I remember when I did the rotation diet (which I am thinking about starting up again) and how successful I was with that.

One more thing though, when someone does get stalled on Atkins, one of the basic recommendations that people make on this board is to leave induction levels and begin OWL, adding in more carbs. I do believe that you can stall from too few carbs as well as too many. Giving your body what it needs is the key, IMHO.

Elihnig

Hey Dru, congratulations on losing 7 lbs. since switching over! I am currently still reading CAD, and for now will have a RM weekly. I'll weigh Wednesday and see how I compare to last week. It's good to know you are doing so well, I like the idea of a RM every day, it's just that I am worried I'll lose one pound a month! Not that that would be necessary too bad, I did gain almost twenty pounds last year!

It's been really informative reading these posts and I've enjoyed it. Roche