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  #76   ^
Old Sat, Mar-26-11, 16:18
Scarlet's Avatar
Scarlet Scarlet is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,434
 
Plan: Gluten free wholefoods
Stats: 173/145/147 Female 5"4.5 inches
BF:37/?/25
Progress: 108%
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Found this Peat nutshell on a blog:

"Thyroid, saturated fats, gelatin, progesterone, pregnenelone, aspirin, B vitamins, coconut oil, fruit, root vegetables, sucrose,and salt are essential to restore the body's natural defences".

Last edited by Scarlet : Sun, Mar-27-11 at 09:45.
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  #77   ^
Old Sat, Mar-26-11, 16:30
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
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Something about cystine (sp) causing inflammation, or something.
It's the buzz lately.
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  #78   ^
Old Sat, Mar-26-11, 17:40
Cathy B. Cathy B. is offline
Posts: 3,993
 
Plan: Intuitive Ray Peat
Stats: 321/228.0/199 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Virginia, USA
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Anyone know what Ray thinks about consuming raw eggs, as in an eggnog type drink? I know some people talk about anti- nutrients in raw eggs, but I can't recall seeing any Peat comments on this subject.

Cathy
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  #79   ^
Old Sun, Mar-27-11, 09:33
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
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There's something about the whites and biotin.
Don't know about yolks....I use them in egg nog, raw.
The consumption of raw eggs in not new and lots of long lived body builders have consumed vast quantities.
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  #80   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 08:02
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Hi folks, I just came across this thread while trying to get more information about Ray Peat's eating plans. I've had a couple people bring him to my attention lately (Cathy B. right here, and also my son). As some of you know - like Scarlet - I'm dealing with hypothyroid issues and would love to be able to address some of those with food. My weight loss has also been stalled for about 18 months now, with my weight just constantly bouncing up and down and up and down in the 260-270 range. 265 this morning for example.

I do have access to raw milk and cream and pastured eggs, and I have a large bottle of plain gelatin, so I have some items available to me.

One issue I keep reading, though, on the Peat stuff I've been reading this morning, is that a lot of what Peat recommends - potatoes, fruit, fruit juice, etc. - he seems to be recommending to avoid hypoglycemia. And hypoglycemia has *never* been a problem for me, quite the opposite in fact, being a T2 diabetic. for me it's a banner day if I see my blood sugar readings go below 100, which is rare. So I do have reservations about that. Anyone have any experience with that?
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  #81   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 13:00
Cathy B. Cathy B. is offline
Posts: 3,993
 
Plan: Intuitive Ray Peat
Stats: 321/228.0/199 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Virginia, USA
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Hi Debbie,
When it comes to Ray Peat, you have to forget pretty much everything you have EVER read about diabetes type 2 or blood sugar control. :-) (Most of which is based on research which was paid for by drug companies.)

If you want to understand Peat's recommendations, the best place to start would be by reading his article, "Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context". It will blow your mind! (Just be prepared. The man is brilliant and seems to assume everyone else is so it takes several read throughs for most folks to grasp what he is saying.)

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

Ray Peat has a Ph.D. in biology with a specialization in physiology. He understands how the body works and bases his recommendations on that knowledge.

This comes from his above mentioned article:

"Insulin is important in the regulation of blood sugar, but its importance has been exaggerated because of the diabetes/insulin industry. Insulin itself has been found to account for only about 8% of the "insulin-like activity" of the blood, with potassium being probably the largest factor. There probably isn't any process in the body that doesn't potentially affect blood sugar.

Glucagon, cortisol, adrenalin, growth hormone and thyroid tend to increase the blood sugar, but it is common to interpret hyperglycemia as "diabetes," without measuring any of these factors. Even when "insulin dependent diabetes" is diagnosed, it isn't customary to measure the insulin to see whether it is actually deficient, before writing a prescription for insulin. People resign themselves to a lifetime of insulin injections, without knowing why their blood sugar is high.

Insulin release is also stimulated by amino acids such as leucine, and insulin stimulates cells to absorb amino acids and to synthesize proteins. Since insulin lowers blood sugar as it disposes of amino acids, eating a large amount of protein without carbohydrate can cause a sharp decrease in blood sugar. This leads to the release of adrenalin and cortisol, which raise the blood sugar. Adrenalin causes fatty acids to be drawn into the blood from fat stores, especially if the liver's glycogen stores are depleted, and cortisol causes tissue protein to be broken down into amino acids, some of which are used in place of carbohydrate. Unsaturated fatty acids, adrenaline, and cortisol cause insulin resistance."


What Peat is saying is that after we eat a meal that stimulates a large release of insulin (protein without carbs, starchy carbs, etc.), our blood sugar drops rapidly and then adrenalin and cortisol raise the blood sugar. So the high blood sugar is caused by the release of the stress hormones. As Peat explains, "Diabetes is often the diagnosis, when excess cortisol is the problem."

I don't know about you, but when my blood sugar is low, I feel very cold. I have also had the experience of eating a high starchy carb meal, and initially feeling very cold and achy, and then a short time later, feeling very warm and inflamed, which is usually at the 90 minute point after the meal and my blood sugar will be close to 200. (This usually happens when I eat starchy grain based meals.) Given what Peat is saying, I suspect that the initial cold, achy, shivery feeling is the blood sugar falling dramatically (hypoglycemia) due to the large insulin release, and then the surge upward is caused by the adrenalin and cortisol release in response to the sudden lowering of blood sugar.

I also believe that is why so many of us Type 2 diabetics experience high fasting blood sugars in the morning, due to the release of the stress hormones to compensate for our falling blood sugar in the night.

Peat's dietary recommendations are designed to cause as little stress as possible to the body and to support the thyroid as much as possible. Admittedly, it is a leap of faith to try his recommendations, but I have been astounded at how my blood sugar has responded. If someone had told me I could drink orange juice and eat ice cream and not have high blood sugar, I would NEVER have believed them. But seeing is believing! The foods he recommends are very rich in potassium, and calcium, and this helps regulate the blood sugar. The only starch he recommends eating is potatoes, because of the quality protein content and the potassium. He says well cooked root veggies are also okay. And the gelatin and other recommendations are supportive of the thyroid.

His foods are quite calorie dense, so it is not a quick fix for weight loss. But I believe by supporting the thyroid and adrenal glands by following his recommendations, as the body heals, the metabolism will increase and some weight can be lost. However, it may be that thyroid supplements would be necessary in order to restore the thyroid fully. You can monitor that by monitoring your pulse and body temperature.

Restrictive diets will only further stress the adrenal glands and thyroid, making weight loss even MORE difficult. So if I have to deal with an underactive thryoid and excess cortisol levels and a sluggish metabolism and have difficulty losing weight, I would rather be eating foods that are helping my body to heal, and that taste really good, too! Both plans can provide good blood sugar control, but Haagen Dazs beats broccoli any day! :-)

Hope this helps!

Cathy
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  #82   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 13:07
Cathy B. Cathy B. is offline
Posts: 3,993
 
Plan: Intuitive Ray Peat
Stats: 321/228.0/199 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Virginia, USA
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Hi Debbie,
I just want to give you a more personal example. For breakfast today, I had about 8 oz. of orange juice, 3 fried eggs, 3 strips of bacon, a LARGE red potato fried in butter, and coffee with cream and sugar and coconut oil. My post meal glucose was 130.

Before following Peat, I would have had just a small red potato fried with some eggs, and bacon, and black coffee, and my blood sugar would probably have been between 130 and 140 after the meal. But I never would have DREAMED that I could have orange juice and cream and sugar in my coffee along with that meal and get the same results! And the Peat meal leaves me feeling much more full and satisfied and gives me that warm tummy feeling AND it is more protective of the thyroid and adrenal system.

As I said, seeing is believing!

Cathy
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  #83   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 13:35
Megan200 Megan200 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 60
 
Plan: Montignac
Stats: 135/125/125 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Debbie, I'm new to this, but just wanted to give some non-numerical support to what Cathy has said.

I had Gestational Diabetes with my last pregnancy ten years ago and decided to continue on my the "diabetes" diet forever, because it seemed to work so well at keeping weight off while being satiating.

On my post a page back, I described how it stopped working for me, and my decision to try Ray Peat's suggestions.

I felt like I was jumping off a cliff by adding full portions of potatoes and then orange juice to my meals a couple of weeks ago, but my weight is slowly going down after stalling for 3 years.

I no longer own a glucose meter --I don't want to start obsessively checking when I don't, as far as I know, have diabetes anymore--but I'm secretly dying to know what the numbers look like just to make sense of all of this.

If you decide to go for it, please share.

Last edited by Megan200 : Mon, Apr-04-11 at 17:47.
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  #84   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 16:42
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan200
I'm dying to hear what your numbers are if you try this. I've added potatoes and orange juice to my meals, and my weight has slowly started going down instead of up.
Yeah, this is sure a leap of faith, but I'm willing to give it a try the more I've been reading about Ray Peat. I truly feeling that trying to emphasize thyroid health is probably my number one issue right now - with blood sugar control and losing more weight being numbers two and three.

I have to say that eating ice cream instead of broccoli sure appeals to me too, . I've been trying to follow a low carb eating plan for blood sugar control - though actually my best control of the last couple years was when I was trying to follow the Kwasniewski plan which also emphasizes eating potatoes, and limiting protein. I do know I need to keep protein on the lower side, and great hunks of meat make my blood sugar go up. All I know about what Ray's program actually entails is what I've read in this thread, though, so I'm not totally sure about what to eat.

I have to admit I've never liked orange juice and the thought of drinking it has absolutely no appeal to me. But at the store earlier today I bought some small fresh blood oranges, and some tangerines. Also some grass-fed cream and half-and-half to help hold me over until Friday when I get my bootleg raw cream and pastured egg delivery. I already use coconut oil daily. I made a custard today using grass-fed half-and-half, one pastured egg, a spoonful of molasses, and some unflavored beef gelatin. A little bland but not bad. I had that with a potato sliced into chips and cooked in coconut oil, and then topped with some butter and salt, and a small wild-caught piece of fish also sauteed in the coconut oil. Earlier in the day eating was not so great.

But I guess I need to start figuring out what might be allowed or not allowed and make some menus. I was excited as it was my birthday a couple days ago and I got a $75 gift certificate to amazon, and I though, "cool, maybe Ray has a book and I can buy it at amazon with my gift certificate". But alas, no such luck. No books there.
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  #85   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 17:54
Scarlet's Avatar
Scarlet Scarlet is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,434
 
Plan: Gluten free wholefoods
Stats: 173/145/147 Female 5"4.5 inches
BF:37/?/25
Progress: 108%
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Peat's plan makes a lot of sense in the long term, however it can cause problems for former low carbers in the short term because low carb diets are very high in PUFAs.

Therefore, when one transitions to Peat from LC, PUFAs are released from the cells. If sugar in the form of glucose or fruit is added at the same time as this PUFA release, it can cause weight problems. So far, four of the low carbers that I know personally, gained weight when they switched to Peat. It usually amounts to 10 to 15% of one's body weight. Personally I gained 4lbs on my first go, then 3lbs on my second go. I switched back to a high starch diet and the weight gain stopped. So it wasn't carb intake.

My current plan is to give it a few months of extremely low PUFA intake before trying the sugar again.

In the meantime, I will continue to eat gelatin and only one serving of low PUFA meat a day. Basically in keeping with other Peat principles, aside from the sugar. My friend arrested her weight gain by eating ala Peat, but avoiding sugar and fruit. After a few months she added the sugar back in and continued to lose.

Last edited by Scarlet : Tue, Apr-05-11 at 06:44.
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  #86   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 18:01
Scarlet's Avatar
Scarlet Scarlet is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,434
 
Plan: Gluten free wholefoods
Stats: 173/145/147 Female 5"4.5 inches
BF:37/?/25
Progress: 108%
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Merpig, here is a link to one of Ray's books:

http://www.amazon.com/nutrition-wom...d=38RBPNZPIHBJJ
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  #87   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 18:37
Megan200 Megan200 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 60
 
Plan: Montignac
Stats: 135/125/125 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Scarlet, that was helpful advice.

I'm curious if you or your previously l/c''ing friends experienced other symptoms of PUFA release and how long they lasted. I'm considering taking anti-oxidants or returning to regular salmon eating for omega 3s again, because I'm feeling and looking unwell, despite some weight loss. I read that Ray Peat said it could take years, and I worry I could do some major damage to my health in that time.

Some the symptoms I've noticed are nasal congestion, fuzzy thinking, light-headedness, weak muscles, dramatic loss of skin elasticity and low energy.

I don't exactly sound like an advertisement for this diet, but I am buying into the research behind it. I'm just wondering if I can do anything to combat these symptoms.

I also wonder if I should have done a more gradual shift to saturated fat from PUFA.
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  #88   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 19:29
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy B.
Hi Debbie,
I just want to give you a more personal example. For breakfast today, I had about 8 oz. of orange juice, 3 fried eggs, 3 strips of bacon, a LARGE red potato fried in butter, and coffee with cream and sugar and coconut oil. My post meal glucose was 130.

Before following Peat, I would have had just a small red potato fried with some eggs, and bacon, and black coffee, and my blood sugar would probably have been between 130 and 140 after the meal.
That's pretty mind-boggling. Your "before" breakfast does sound a lot more like mine - though I do love raw cream in my coffee, and/or coconut oil. One or the other. But I don't like orange juice, and I absolutely *hate* sugar in my coffee - so no temptations there. I guess I have to decide what else I could do about that.
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  #89   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 19:30
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet
Peat's plan makes a lot of sense in the long term, however it can cause problems for former low carbers in the short term because low carb diets are very high in PUFAs.
Well I have been trying to keep my PUFAs as low as possible for over two years now - not perfect but doing my best to limit them a lot. So keeping fingers crossed this will not be a major issue. Why would low carb diets be high in PUFAs?
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  #90   ^
Old Mon, Apr-04-11, 19:33
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet
Merpig, here is a link to one of Ray's books:

http://www.amazon.com/nutrition-wom...d=38RBPNZPIHBJJ
Thanks, I did see this, but since it says it's "currently unavailable" I was unable to order it with my gift certificate. Not even available there as a used copy. But I could try to look for it elsewhere. Would just have to pay for it with my own money and not my gift money
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