Glucose is a rate-limiting factor for fat storage. So, obviously, is fat. In a very low fat diet, the body is forced to treat dietary carbohydrate quite a bit differently. For one thing, the body has to make it's own fat. This is kind of expensive, something around twenty seven percent of the calories are lost in the process of synthesizing the fat.

Raw vegan diets, green smoothie plans and stuff like that, are often very low calorie, so if a person starts out with lots of body fat, they're basically on a high-fat diet, anyways. There is no such thing as a diet that involves significant (to the individual, not to science, lol) weight loss, that is low fat.

Low fat vegans are about as few as pure carnivores, therefore the term "often" doesn't apply here. Further, the lack of meat in the diet indicates a deficiency in at least one essential nutrient (b12) which will translate in poor health and even severe illness at some point. Finally, the lack of fat in the diet will cause further problems with energy, mental health and skeletal health to name but a few.

Having said all that, the initial result will probably be a return to good health in the short term at least in part due to cutting out refined sugars and starches. But here's the caveat, the original diet must be the SAD or some kind of high carb diet, i.e. it must be worse than low fat vegan (that's pretty difficult to beat if you ask me). If, for example, we started with a pure carnivore diet then switched to a low fat vegan diet, the result, both short term and long term, will never be better than the original diet. But that's just what I think.

and when the person finally has little animal fat of their own to burn, is one time when the trouble starts, in my observation. They try to stick too much to PUFAs, or some of the smart ones go to coconut or palm oil. It's just hard to get good saturated fat from plant sources.

Oh, I'm so glad I posted this. You guys are great. A couple of things jumped out at me - first, that no weightloss diet is lowfat (I read that a while ago and forgot all about it), second that these success stories are from people coming off a typical SAD.

And manger's post is probably the one that scared me straight.

I missed this somehow. Perfect.

Thanks!

i do not know if i will ever completely recover from my 20 yr as a vegetarian.
i was so dogmatic then....as my health deteriorated.
now i am dogmatic about how unhealthy it is.

It seems like there's a good number of people who improve dramatically on any diet that doesn't include processed foods. Whether the diet is vegan, gluten-free or carnivore doesn't seem to matter much for them... at least in the short term. It can take years for a lack of dietary B12 to deplete your body's stores, but when it happens, the effects can be devastating. I suspect the same thing happens to muscle-meat-only carnivores after a few years, although I'm sure it's not as severe.

I've often wondered if many vegans who experience improvements are actually people with dairy or egg intolerances. Especially if they switched from a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, they might feel like they've found the perfect solution. It might never occur to them that eating meat but not dairy would improve their health, because our society puts lacto-ovo-vegetarianism in the middle of a false continuum of healthy eating.

Capmikee and I discuss this alot. One of our theories is that giving up eggs and dairy could lead to vast health improvements since those are common causes of food insensitivities/allergies.I only know one vegan who is still vegan in his late thirties. Doesn't happen very often because, as others have noted, it's pretty unsustainable health-wise. Even I am low in B-12 and I eat red meat every single day and eat not grains (not just not optimal, low enough to be flagged on the lab report). Sometimes I wonder if I messed myself up so bad eating nearly veg that there is no turning back?

I was a very healthy vegan (the best shape of my life really, never got sick, tons of energy, great blood work). I started eating meat after I married a very carnivorous man and maintaining the lifestyle with that was close to impossible. I am in the process of going back that direction because sense I started eating a lot of meat I have only got worse, even on a very proper LC diet. I come to the boards because I *LOVE* the thought provoking conversations on this board and the openness of the people who post here. I think anymore it is a "what works best for you" kind of a thing and not totally one way or the other. IMHO....

That was an interesting article.

How long were you vegan?

5 years. Do I think I will ever go back totally vegan/vegetarian, no. I have a DH that is a avid meat eater and frankly I have developed a love for ribs. But I do tend to stay more what they call flexitarian, which is meat eating, but only every so often.

My son and his wife, also my other son and his wife are, and their children are vegetarians, and one of my sons and his wife are total vegans, they are all normal weight and very, very healthy. They all follow a healthy diet, though.

My daughter is a vegetarian/vegan and is very overweight.

My husband and myself are grossly overweight also. I developed diabetes due to genetics, obesity, and poor eating habits, and am low carbing it ala Berstein plan to help control it. My husband is LC also.

When I was in my 40s, I lost a lot of weight, over 80 pounds, had excellent cholesterol and other blood tests, blood pressure, etc., by eating a whole grain/vegan diet, and walking an hour a day. Now I am diabetic and can't eat grains anymore.

I think one person's medicine is another person's poison.

You might have a meat intolerance. Grain and dairy intolerances are much more common and people don't discuss meat allergies/intolerances very often, but they do exist. I am a big believer in our bodies ruling the day. I eat what makes me feel good - that is my standard for health and I think everyone should do the same, no dogma. Years ago people used to say things like "oh, that doesn't agree with me" and they just wouldn't eat it. We've mucked it up...

I'd reckon she has a lack of stomach acid production from having been vegan for 5 years that would cause maldigestion from meat. Betaine HCL should help with that