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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Dec-10-10, 07:16
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: HEALcare - Dr. Westman
Stats: 208/195.2/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

I'm glad you guys warned me about the very controlled nature of the yahoo support group thing. I'm already being denied access to anything beyond Step 3 until they (what seems like) "inspect my program." At least I wasn't shocked by this news LOL.

Soldiering on...

DG
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Jan-04-11, 04:32
Slimnfit Slimnfit is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Radiant Recovery
Stats: 143/143/119 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default RR newbie

Hi --

I came upon the Potatoes Not Prozac book this past December after googling "Sugar Addiction" because I finally had to admit to myself that I was one. I read (skimmed) the book and even though the science seemed somewhat dubious I am trying to take from the process what works for me. I am now on Step One/Step Two. But have questions which, when I posted to the Radiant Recovery Yahoo group, were ignored.
How important is it to eat within one hour of arising? I like to get up and go running but can't do that on a full stomach. Also why are they so insistent on going slow? I have always eaten a high protein breakfast and yet the moderator chastised me for going from Step Two after only being on Step One two weeks even after I explained I've always practiced Step One.
I've been getting the Step One and Step Two listserv digests for a few days and something about the responses from the moderators made me think the word "cult" and having googled "Cult" and "Radiant Recovery" I am upon this site, which I have now joined.
Interested in others' feedback and experiences and success or lack thereof.

Maria
PS If you look at the various Desmaisons reader reviews on Amazon I think they have infiltrated that, too
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Jan-04-11, 10:15
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

On the importance of eating within the hour: it's a must-have in that world. The biochemical goal underlying that behavioral guide is to avoid blood sugar crashes and endorphin spikes.

I'll give you the general idea of morning runners who are sugar sensitive, from what I heard over there. I never was one myself so can't give the personal experience, sorry.

Sugar sensitive runners out of balance (carb addicted): the person gets up and runs on an empty stomach. They also usually run hard enough to get high on endorphins. This depletes glucose and might lead to a blood sugar crash later; also the endorphins, if they are a spiky high, start the fight-flight-freeze-feed hormonal cascase, which is also sugar burning mode. Sooner or later in the day the body craves fast carbs from this morning activity because the hormonal situation is sugar burning.

Sugar sensitive runners in balance (no longer in addiction): the person gets up and makes sure there is fuel before running; either from an evening snack the night before, or a half-shake or fruit/protein goo that is easy digesting. Then they run, enough for a glow but not spiky killer sprints. Then they have the rest of breakfast or a midmorning snack.

On why so insistent on going slow: because so many people fail by going fast. Impatient, fast-performing people who know a lot from past diets, miss details, don't hear things, and think a step is a goal to pass instead of a habit to pick up and keep. Habit forming which takes 3-4 weeks depending on what expert you listen to. They also make the mistake in thinking that the steps are simultaneous when in reality they build on each other.

On cults: DesMaisons has a background as a mental health clinic manager and I believe the support sites are run on that model. The lists and volunteers are all there for one thing - to support the program as written - it's not really a site like here where more topics are welcomed and encouraged. If it's a cult I would say it's more a benign cult like Apple or Harley believers.

Last edited by Seejay : Tue, Jan-04-11 at 10:23.
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Jan-07-11, 11:53
FreeBird1's Avatar
FreeBird1 FreeBird1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,761
 
Plan: My Own :-)
Stats: 253/237.6/135 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: USA WA State
Default

I worked the program for 4 months. I made it to Step 7 doing the Steps slowly simply because my body was already off sugar and I already ate all browns.

I went from Atkins to RR because I had started battling a dark depression and anxiety. I didn't know if was related to my chronic pain/auto-immune illness or if I needed to adjust something.

I knew about our different brain chemicals from various research I had done over the years. So, after a friend told me about it, I decided to give it a go.

I spent 1 month on Step 1, 2, 3, and 4. After that, I found that I could no longer tolerate the high amounts of grain carb nor the carb at night.

I ate a strictly organic whole foods diet with lean grass fed beef, organic chicken, and wild salmon. Plus, brown rice, quinoa, sweet potato, small yukon, beans, and veggies.

****************

I left because I knew instinctively it was not for me and that I had grown as far as I could with the program. I needed to do the rest of my journal my way, with my research, and as I see fit.

I hated the forum. I mean hated it. I strongly disliked the yahoo groups. And, I particularly think Ms. Des Maissons needs to continue in therapy herself.

Several times she severely embarrassed people on their; ridiculed myself and others; sent rude emails to me; asked if certain list members were in therapy and suggested it; saw my ideas and others as stupid or not accurate if it wasn't exactly hers; accused me of addict thinking when I challenged her; totally gave conflicting information (from day to day); refused to anything people and blocked them when they stated they were gaining A LOT of weight; and the overall tone of herself and some moderators is down right abusive.

I do think she is trying to brainwash desperate woman into thinking her way of thinking and doing is the only way.

Here's my take from:

Get the book: "Potatoes Not Prozac". The new one. Read it. Everything you need to know about how the program works is there, you can apply it yourself, and then make it what you want/need it to be. Take the skills and go.

Ignore "Your Last Diet" and all the others. They were later prints and the information in them isn't cohesive and YOU WILL GAIN A LOT OF WEIGHT.



To me (INMHO) eating breakfast soon after waking is a no-brainer. Eating no carbs or VLC will deplete you serotonin in the long run (for me it takes about 6 weeks) BUT>>>>

Going from VLC or LC to high complex carbs (regardless of the quality of carb) will cause all sorts of other problems. Now, I am dealing with all of those.

I went back to what I knew worked for me. I plan to slowly add a little complex carb back in soon. But, very slow, and journal the whole time.

I don't recommend the potato or sweet potato. I recommend a protein/complex carb snack at bedtime or late evening if you have trouble sleeping or wake-up grumpy/shakey. Otherwise, leave it alone.

It was so refreshing to hear everyone on this thread posting their thoughts and what happened to them.

It is so important that each of us does this thing called our life, our way. Keep trusting your gut. Listen to yourself first and foremost.

Thanks for letting me hope on and give my humble opinion.

Erin :-))

ps..doing much better since leaving the forum and RR. This is home to me. I do use the recovery skills. I just took what I wanted and knew to be true for me and dumped the rest, including Kathleen.
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Jan-07-11, 20:37
Sunspot Sunspot is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 116/110/110 Female 5"1'
BF:
Progress:
Default Sugar Sensitive and Radiant Recovery

Hi, Maria,

For me, eating within an hour of getting up is important; I'm a blood-sugar crasher, and can be volatile if I go much more than an hour. I also work out first thing, and get by eating a small snack, usually a homemade, low-sugar energy bar (fruit sweetened), or 1/2 peanut butter on whole wheat, or the like. This helps keep the edge off, and powers my weight training, cardio or the like. As soon as I get home, I eat a full breakfast.

Kathleen and others on RR said this approach was "not Step 1 compliant," so for awhile, I drank a full protein shake before lifting weights and swimming. I'm surprised I never barfed during a workout! I'm now back to the small snack method, and that works just fine! I don't need Kathleen or anyone else's approval.

It sounds like you've already begun to get some negative feedback from the forum. Like Erin and Seejay, I recommend you read--really read-- the most recent book. If you have a good breakfast in place, GREAT! Move on. Find out what works for you and ignore the forum feedback that you're doing something "wrong." I do agree with comments about why it is good to go slow: we tend to want to fix things overnight, and making permanent change takes time. Still, if you are doing something well, are confident in that, then move on.

For me, I've found that what works is three meals a day with high-quality protein, lots of green veggies, some browns (not nearly the quantity RR suggests), some fruit with meals if I feel like it. When my workouts are more intense, I add a protein/whole grain snack. I'm not currently doing the potato, and am fine--I think the light box I began using in November is helping my mood more than anything.

I agree with Erin: Kathleen should be in therapy herself--I believe the term "control freak" applies, and the way she treats people (except those who kowtow to her) is incredibly disrespectful and harmful. Some of the things she said in private e-mails to me (after I told her to stop sending me e-mails) were unbelievable! If you can think for yourself, and question anything about RR, expect this: 1) the first time, you'll get a polite but firm correction from people on the forum, possible the moderator, and possibly Kathleen; 2) the second, you'll be told how into your addiction you are or worse; 3) the third, your post likely will be "moderated" and you may be told in a private e-mail what a failure you are, despite having great potential. She may even say something like, "I expected you to respond in this way," should you defend yourself. (I gave that up immediately, and she HATED that I would not argue with her--I knew no matter what I said she'd see it as evidence of how screwed up I was).

Anyway, like others, I agree that the basic program is terrific for sugar sensitives--but the forum is completely toxic unless you agree with them 100%.
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  #36   ^
Old Tue, Jan-11-11, 04:22
Slimnfit Slimnfit is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Radiant Recovery
Stats: 143/143/119 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default I feel different this time

For me the most beneficial result of reading PNP and learning about sugar sensitivity is that I finally have come to realize that my crazy sugar binges have a basis in something other than my lack of willpower and consequently when I look in the mirror and see the extra 12 pounds I've put on since October, due to the holiday sugar fest, I don't look with eyes of disgust. In fact I think my chubbiness as rather cute. Not so cute that I want to hang onto it exactly but I'm not coming down on myself as I have my whole life.

When I was young I must have been blessed with a high metabolism because I ate candy, ice cream and pastries non-stop and was still skinny. But even back then I remember trips to the high-end candy store and then hurrying home to eat my bag of goodies alone in my room. In fact I have only really wanted to binge on sugar by myself. That wanting to hide away and sneak my treats is something I always attributed to some weakness or sickness on my part. I watched my Dad, who was also thin, do the same thing. But it all finally caught up with me after menopause.

Although I've never been morbidly obese I had been 30 lbs overweight for most of 13 years. Then four years ago I managed, following South Beach, to get down to a normal weight, only to gain back 10 lbs every Christmas. Last January I tried Jenny Craig and I lost the 10 lbs and 5 more, and got down to my lowest in 22 years, even though I was still sneaking candy and treats. And I did keep it off until Halloween. Then I really bottomed out, despite my desire not to repeat what was becoming a yearly custom. I think maybe my body was trying to tell me something. At one point, after sneaking a whole box of Russell Stover in one sitting, and feeling so awful, I googled "sugar addict" and came across PnP. I got it out of the library before Christmas and knew I couldn't start anything until after our family get-together. Which is where I find myself now. Step 1 is something I have always done, since South Beach days, maybe not with so much protein and no brown. So I've modified my breakfast, upped the protein, added the brown and I love it. Then I began Step 2 since I have also always journalled. What I love about this journal is I have no urge to lie to myself, like I have done in the past with Weight Watchers. It's more like tracking scientific data, where nothing is wrong or bad. It is just data, something that can be examined. I have stopped eating sugar. I know that is something that is not advised at this point but feeling as bad as I did over the holidays I simply cannot continue to eat it. It makes me feel too awful. During my recent binging I was not journalling but I was observing, for really the first time, the effect that all this sugar was having on me. I was feeling not only up and down moodwise, and compulsively pre-occupied with getting my next fix, but my joints were aching as if I had arthritis. I was attributing this to the cold and damp and only later, after I had cut out the sugar, did someone tell me that that is related to eating sugar. And now that aching and stiffness has subsided signficantly.

Anyway, enough rambling. I just wanted to record where I'm at today.

One final point I am eternally grateful that I began an intensive exercise program three and half years ago. Mostly Pilates and jogging. I've added in yoga recently. I wish I could spend three hours a day exercising. A lot of times I do manage to do two hours. Because no matter how bad I was eating the feeling that underneath any padding my muscles and my endurance are there for me gives me such a feeling of confidence. Even though I dieted I would resent the limits. Limits seem like a negative. But with exercise it is the opposite of limits. It is a positive. I have always thought that for anyone who has problems with food, start first with exercise. It is a great way to start to get in touch with your body.

Maria
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Jan-11-11, 09:09
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Maria what a great post. I love how you turned the corner about observing your eating instead of coming down on yourself.
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  #38   ^
Old Sat, Jan-15-11, 12:56
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: HEALcare - Dr. Westman
Stats: 208/195.2/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

Maria, I too found your post very insightful. I see a lot of "me" in there. Especially the parts about planning for the "fix" and eating alone. Those are behaviors I used to reserve for alcohol consumption. When I first stopped drinking, I followed great advice NOT to feed the early cravings with sugar. I got past it and was fine. It was a couple years later when I started to allow sugar into my picture that the addictive behaviors (thankfully not with alcohol this time!) quickly escalated.

I am lurking only on RR. Taking what I need and leaving the rest.

I am very interested and grateful for all the comments on this thread, and will keep reading with interest!

DG
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  #39   ^
Old Sat, Jan-15-11, 17:14
Slimnfit Slimnfit is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Radiant Recovery
Stats: 143/143/119 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress:
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DG

Thanks. I agree about the similarity between alcoholic and sugar sensitive behavior. For a long time I hoped I could control sugar by eating it in moderation. But the truth is I was unable to do it and it left me constantly preoccupied with either resisting or indulging in the forbidden fruit. Now that I have decided in favor of complete abstinence it is almost easy. But I think it took me a long long time to be able to get to this point.

Maria
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  #40   ^
Old Mon, Feb-07-11, 05:16
Horsewoman Horsewoman is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Paleo eating
Stats: 267/234/180 Female 5ft 4in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Hi, I just joined so excuse me for weighing in, but I spotted this thread and wanted to respond. I actually left Radiant Recovery about a year ago as I was also unhappy with the way it was run and the way I was personally being spoken to. I was told time and time again that my problems were due to my husband being abusive when actually I was ill with gluten intolerance. I knew it was physical but I was told again and again that the plan works and if i was doing it as written and not feeling "radiant" then the problems must be somewhere else. My experiences there over 10 years had a significant detrimental affect on me psychologically, which I have now moved on from, although I did learn a lot too.

I don't have any regrets because without PNP I very much doubt I would have even realised I was gluten intolerant, let alone found paleo which is what I am now doing. I still use some of the principles I learned there, and it has helped me understand how my body works. So I still will suggest reading PNP to people, but yes I would not recommend getting deep into the RR community as I did. I left when I started (with her encouragement) learning about co-dependence, and realised the person I was most co-dependent to wasn't my husband, but in fact was her and the brainwashed RR clones!

I have met her, and I know that really she is all about wanting to make others' lives better, despite how it sometimes seems. But her style and the way she has decided to operate things with the program and RR, are very unhelpful.
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  #41   ^
Old Tue, Feb-08-11, 06:12
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: HEALcare - Dr. Westman
Stats: 208/195.2/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

Hi all. I have been completely off of sugar now for several weeks and am so glad I just took the plunge and did it. Trying to adjust anything while still eating sugar was just crazy making for me. Whew!!

Mean time, in early December I started taking a number of amino acid supplements ala The Diet Cure by Julia Ross. I'm convinced that helped me stabilize my moods, etc. and come off the sugar.

Although I don't have a lot of experience with PNP, I did recently realize something valuable I learned as part of that program. I have developed a very stable breakfast that is satisfying, and that holds me until lunch time without getting hungry. One day last week, I left out a key ingredient which drastically reduced the protein content. I didn't even realize it until mid morning I was famished. What happened next was like a bad movie. That set me up to have a crazy craving/eating day. I'm convinced there is a connection!

I'm very glad to have found what seems to be working for me in a good breakfast.

Even though I am still signed up for several of the Yahoo PNP lists, I never post to them. I sometimes read the summaries that come daily to my Inbox. Occassionally something good comes by. Kathleen e-mailed me the other day to "ask me how I was doing." I chose not to respond. Don't want to go there.

Hope everyone else who is using all or part of PNP for healing is doing well today! Just thought I would share that little experience.

DG
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  #42   ^
Old Tue, Feb-08-11, 07:24
Horsewoman Horsewoman is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Paleo eating
Stats: 267/234/180 Female 5ft 4in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggygirl2
Hi all. I have been completely off of sugar now for several weeks and am so glad I just took the plunge and did it. Trying to adjust anything while still eating sugar was just crazy making for me. Whew!!

Mean time, in early December I started taking a number of amino acid supplements ala The Diet Cure by Julia Ross. I'm convinced that helped me stabilize my moods, etc. and come off the sugar.

Although I don't have a lot of experience with PNP, I did recently realize something valuable I learned as part of that program. I have developed a very stable breakfast that is satisfying, and that holds me until lunch time without getting hungry. One day last week, I left out a key ingredient which drastically reduced the protein content. I didn't even realize it until mid morning I was famished. What happened next was like a bad movie. That set me up to have a crazy craving/eating day. I'm convinced there is a connection!

I'm very glad to have found what seems to be working for me in a good breakfast.

Even though I am still signed up for several of the Yahoo PNP lists, I never post to them. I sometimes read the summaries that come daily to my Inbox. Occassionally something good comes by. Kathleen e-mailed me the other day to "ask me how I was doing." I chose not to respond. Don't want to go there.

Hope everyone else who is using all or part of PNP for healing is doing well today! Just thought I would share that little experience.

DG


Those how're you doing emails are automated I think. I got one when I was in the middle of a disagreement with her lol.

If you talk at RR about quitting sugar and not being ale to work on other stuff until after, you will get yourself into trouble!

ITA about breakfast. We do breakfast with protein for the whole family now. My dd is 14 and makes her own, she always makes sure she has enough protein because she knows she's crash in the lesson before lunch if she doesn't.

The supplements sound interesting, I haven't come across that. I am a week into a go at pure paleo eating. Am through the sugar withdrawal (I cut out fruit as well) and my mouth tastes like poo so I reckon I am doing well lol.
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  #43   ^
Old Sat, Apr-02-11, 21:48
lisalgreer lisalgreer is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Insulin Resistance Diet
Stats: 295.2/281.6/200 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 14%
Default

I'm enjoying this thread. I learned a LOT from RR, but a couple things were detrimental to me at the time when I practiced it on and off... desperately trying to make it to step 7 you know to lose some weight, too! I tried for over 3 years. Then I found out I am at least sensitive to gluten and dairy. Also, I have PCOS and insulin resistance. Eating lower carb makes me feel good.

On RR, sadly, KD would always say, oh you all need to eat MORE carbs. Come to find out, no! I didn't. I needed way less than I was eating. I felt sleepy and full often but didn't know why.

Nice thread... I appreciate the brain chem I learned there, but KD is blind to other issues, I think.
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  #44   ^
Old Tue, Feb-03-15, 17:19
SassyPD SassyPD is offline
New Member
Posts: 1
 
Plan: RR
Stats: 200/200/132 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress:
Default Potatoes not Prozac

What is different about the revised Potatoes not Prozac? I just bought the original and am wondering if I need to get the revised instead.
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