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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 07:42
katerina katerina is offline
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Posts: 119
 
Plan: starting Bernstein
Stats: 160/147/125 Female 5'
BF:
Progress: 37%
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Hutchinson, what about kids at one year of age and 4 years of age? Do they require the same vitamin D levels as adults? I think parents (my own children) are always hesitant to "OD" their children with supplements, so is there some study you know of that deals with optimal levels of D and dosages recommended to bring them up to that? Thanks.
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  #17   ^
Old Sat, Nov-07-09, 05:30
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katerina
Hutchinson, what about kids at one year of age and 4 years of age? Do they require the same vitamin D levels as adults? I think parents (my own children) are always hesitant to "OD" their children with supplements, so is there some study you know of that deals with optimal levels of D and dosages recommended to bring them up to that? Thanks.
Back in the 1950's in Finland they used to give newborn babies around 2000iu/daily during the first year. When they stopped doing that, (when the rest of Europe decided 2000iu/d was the safe upper limit for adults therefore it must be too much for babies) the incidence of Type One Diabetes rocketed and now Finland has more Type One Diabetes than almost anywhere else.

So we know giving 2000iu daily to children under 12months results in an 80% lower incidence of Type One Diabetes over the next 30 yrs.

Dr Cannell suggests 1000iu daily for each 25lbs.

64000iu/daily should be the minimum any breastfeeding mother takes daily that is the amount that allows vitamin d to flow in her breast milk and is surely the amount that human DNA evolved to work best with.

I can think of no logical reason why children of any age should have a lower 25(OH)D than is optimum for adults.
Vitamin d is crucial for over 2000gene controlled actions in the brain alone vitamin D3 upregulated 128 proteins that operate different enzyme actions in the brain. The kind of 25(OH)D kids would natually apply acquire playing naked in the sunshine is evolutionary natural. The kind of level most kids have nowdays is totally unnatural.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Nov-08-09, 09:22
katerina katerina is offline
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Posts: 119
 
Plan: starting Bernstein
Stats: 160/147/125 Female 5'
BF:
Progress: 37%
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Thanks for that info, which I am passing on to my children vis-a-vis my grandkids. I have also ordered a magnesium oil for transdermal delivery for myself. I tried a epsom salt bath yesterday but I find it difficult to sit still in a tub for twenty minutes indoors. Our spa/jacuzzi (we live in Florida) is the inground kind that you don't drain so it's chorinated and I doubt you can throw salts into it as it seats 6 people and that would be too much to drain every time you put salts in. (You can, of course drain it for repairs.) Otherwise I think I would shrivel up and never get out of it, as you get nice sunshine, too.

Interesting that my palm trees are often in need of both manganese and magnesium supplements. Without these they turn a bit jaundiced colored and get a "frizzle" look to the fronds. So I will be supplementing my trees (actually not trees, per se) with the same thing with which I am going to be supplementing myself. They must be important elements for health, then, in both plants and people.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 12:07
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lisabinil lisabinil is offline
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Posts: 1,442
 
Plan: Healthy moderate carb
Stats: 215/171/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 80%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
I'm going to start the 50,000 iu once a week as soon as it gets here. I have had Fibromyalgia for 5 yrs. I do have lest day of painful areas, my collor bones and wings in my back, but other days is not very good. Heat is my enemy. More days of pain when temp reach 90, then in the winter. I am interested to see how long the Vit D3 takes to get up to 60-70 and if the Fibro improves more.
I sure will let everyone know



Fibro worsening with heat is not a symptom of the disorder. It is however for MS-have you been checked for MS? I have a chronic Vitamin D deficiency-my mom & sister also have it. It doesn't matter how long we spend in the sun our bodies are not converting the sunlight properly. Hopefully the script will help you-it does help me with fatigue and general achiness.
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 12:14
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisabinil
Hopefully the script will help you-it does help me with fatigue and general achiness.
Prescription Vitamin D2 the form that is usually on RX may in fact make matters worse. It speeds up the catabolism (turnover) of vitamin D so your body uses it up even faster. Apart from the fact that it is more expensive and less effective. Generally prescription vitamin D is a waste of time and money. Dr Davis has plenty so say on the topic

Fructose also induces vitamin D insufficiency as does wheat. (bran particularly)
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 12:27
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lisabinil lisabinil is offline
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Plan: Healthy moderate carb
Stats: 215/171/160 Female 5'6"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
Prescription Vitamin D2 the form that is usually on RX may in fact make matters worse. It speeds up the catabolism (turnover) of vitamin D so your body uses it up even faster. Apart from the fact that it is more expensive and less effective. Generally prescription vitamin D is a waste of time and money. Dr Davis has plenty so say on the topic

Fructose also induces vitamin D insufficiency as does wheat. (bran particularly)



I don't care what he says or articles on the Internet-it works for me especially when my levels have plummeted very low. I also supplement with CLO & Carlsons drops. I get so sick of seeing posts how the script makes things worse-in my case it hasn't.
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 16:04
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
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On the subject of kids:

I give my 9yo some D most mornings, 1-2K, plus some magnesium citrate in the evenings, sometimes with a multi which has various Bs in it to help the magnesium get absorbed better.

I give my 12yo chelated magnesium in the evenings as she has been complaining about getting frequent headaches and she herself says she feels better after taking the magnesium.

She isn't so good about taking the Vitamin D3, though. She read what it says on the bottle - i.e. more than 2K is toxic - and thinks I am trying to poison her because I wanted her to take 4k (she is pretty much a full-grown woman, around 50-55kg I guess)!!! Teenagers always know best, so I am fighting a losing battle.

I am going to try to get some 2K gelcaps for her because I reckon it would be better for her to take 2K than no K!!! I told her I have read two books on the subject (German ones, very recent publications) and countless articles etc, but this didn't convince her.

amanda
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 16:55
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LSU Fan LSU Fan is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 175/165/150 Female 5ft 2in
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Location: LOUISIANA
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Hutch are you a MD. I have to disagree with you on summer and fibro some of my worst days come in the heat. Was checked for Lupus. Have taken Vit D for years. Thanks
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Dec-08-09, 01:46
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,735
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
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Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSU Fan
Do I take my Vit D all at once or spread thru the day. Taking gel 1000, usually just take all at once. Thanks.


Generally, it's recommended to take your Vit D in the morning as it can keep some people awake.

Mine is in drop form, so I have 2-3 drops on a spoon first thing in the morning, followed by a little "cocktail" of magnesium chloride with 1mg of taurine = 1 pill (the latter helps magnesium to be absorbed better, amongst other things), plus another pill of B complex, which apparently is also necessary for magnesium uptake. My calcium I get via food. Oh, and if I remember, I also take a tablet of probiotics first thing, too. They can help your stomach to absorb all nutrients better, but apparently particularly help with the absorption of taurine.

After taking vitamin D3 for one year, my levels have reached 61ng/ml.

No colds, and generally feel fine!!!

amanda
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Dec-08-09, 04:52
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSU Fan
Hutch are you a MD.
Certainly not. But I am able to read and do simple maths.

Quote:
I have to disagree with you on summer and fibro some of my worst days come in the heat.
Being HOT is not the same as having a high 25(OH)D status. Probably 20minutes sun (UVB) completes the synthesis of vitamin d for any one portion of skin. So FULL BODY (or as near to as possible) exposure for 20mins probably generates your daily requirement. If you stay under UVA that newly made vitamin D will be processed on into substances the body doesn't use. Spending 20mins in the sun, to make your vitamin D, then slapping sunscreen on results in only UVA reaching the skin surface (most sunscreens block UVB by converting it to UVA) thus the rest of the time you lay in the sun applying sunscreen you are subject to UVA and what is that doing.
It's destroying the vitamin d you made earlier. Spend your coffee break laying in the sun then spend the rest of the day by the window (only UVA penetrates glass) or near a fluorescent light source and you'll find your vitamin D made during your coffee break is processed on into substance your body cannot use.

Quote:
Have taken Vit D for years. Thanks
But what matters is the 25(OH)D status your body achieved. 55ng/ml or above is required to ensure you always have a store of anti inflammatory agent available to deal with crisis situations.
Sure people can buy and take vit d for years without it doing a scrap of good, most over the counter Vit d's are around 400iu whereas your skin, on a good day, without burning, and without sunscreen could generate 10000~20000iu.
The amount of vitamin D in most OTC supplements is so trivial the effect is barely measurable and most pregnant women taking prenatal vitamin D supplements are DEFICIENT when they give birth.


You don't have to be a MD to understand what Hollis and Wagner are reporting here Remember they live/work at latitude 32. At latitude 42 things are very different as is even more so at latitude 52.
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  #26   ^
Old Thu, Dec-10-09, 16:48
quietone quietone is offline
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Posts: 1,270
 
Plan: original 72 Atkins
Stats: 201/177/142 Female 65 inches
BF:44/44/25
Progress: 41%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Yes, but has anyone found a way for it not to bother your stomach at the uppper levels?
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Dec-10-09, 17:40
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietone
Yes, but has anyone found a way for it not to bother your stomach at the uppper levels?
I discovered today that some vitamin D3 capsules are in lactose and I'm sure some people are lactose intolerant. Worth checking if you're using vit d in lactose.
I certainly DON'T have any problems with ANY of the D3 Ive used in oil, fish , olive, soy, or MCT (I think MCT is probably best) nor do I find any difference with the dry powder capsules from BIOTECH. Nor do I find it any dfferent taking supplements to laying in sun or laying under a UVB light tube.
I do accept that other people MAY react differently to different formulations and respond differently to UVB either from sun or tubes. But the science shows us that D3 on it's own, is INERT. (so those who imagine they have reactions to inert substances most consider what they are bringing to that experience that isn't based on science but psychology)
D3 is INERT. it only becomes activated AFTER it's been hydroxylated by your liver into 25(OH)D or further hydroxylated to the active hormone 1.25 CALCITRIOL by your kidneys.
The way to avoid the stomach is to either dissolve the D3 into coconut oil and massage it into your skin or to lay under a UVB sunlamp/tanning tube. that way your stomach isn't involved.
Remember also that nothing is quite as simple as scientists would have you believe. We talk about cholesterol subject to UVB being converted to vitamin D3 being converted to 25(OH)D but some is also converted to 20(OH)d3 and this MAY also be activated to 1.25, so there could possibly (remember this is all relatively new research) be a whole host of benefits accruing to those who lay naked in the sunshine that aren't on record simply because no one has as yet thought to research the potential.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Fri, Dec-11-09 at 03:52.
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  #28   ^
Old Thu, Dec-10-09, 19:09
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is online now
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Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/324.0/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietone
Yes, but has anyone found a way for it not to bother your stomach at the uppper levels?

Injection?
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  #29   ^
Old Fri, Dec-11-09, 07:34
quietone quietone is offline
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Posts: 1,270
 
Plan: original 72 Atkins
Stats: 201/177/142 Female 65 inches
BF:44/44/25
Progress: 41%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Injections? Interesting. I didn't realize they were available.

As far as the other, we've tried everything on the market and it bothers both my DH and me. We've tried it alone and with other supplments. It's definitely the D (and D2 does it a well), but I don't know why. Perhaps because it's really meant to be manufactured through the skin (sun) and not started in the stomach? I don't know. I take less than I would if I could figure out how to stop the stomach problems.
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  #30   ^
Old Fri, Dec-11-09, 11:30
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is online now
Posts: 16,755
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/324.0/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietone
Injections? Interesting. I didn't realize they were available.

As far as the other, we've tried everything on the market and it bothers both my DH and me. We've tried it alone and with other supplments. It's definitely the D (and D2 does it a well), but I don't know why. Perhaps because it's really meant to be manufactured through the skin (sun) and not started in the stomach? I don't know. I take less than I would if I could figure out how to stop the stomach problems.

So, the Bio-Mulsion D Forte 2,000 IU drops affect you the same way? If you've tried those with the same effect I'd say it's definitely the D and not the fillers.
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