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  #46   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 17:41
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Plan: quasi paleo + starch
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Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text |

Fructose, insulin resistance, and metabolic dyslipidemia


Quote:

....Both fat and fructose consumption usually results in low leptin concentrations which, in turn, leads to overeating in populations consuming energy from these particular macronutrients. An adipocyte hormone, adiponectin, also plays an important role in lipid homeostasis and insulin action [61]. The insulin sensitizer agonist, peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma, stimulates adiponectin production and adiponectin is in fact thought to be part of this agonist's mechanism lowering circulating fatty acids and increasing fat oxidation. The net effect is to decrease liver TG and increase insulin sensitivity [62].

Chronic fructose consumption reduces adiponectin responses, contributing to insulin resistance [63]....

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...e=UTF-8&strip=1

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  #47   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 17:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Nadh dependent vitamin k reductase activity

Osteocalcin raises adiponectin. Vitamin K2 is necessary for gamma-carboxylation of osteocalcin, which is necessary for osteocalcin to work right.
I had a study earlier where it was shown that gamma carboxylation could be increased by either adding more vitamin k to rat livers, or more NADH (Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, that's Nicotinamide as in nicotinic acid as in niacin.)
Alcohol, exercise, niacin, all increase levels of NADH in the body.

There was an interesting thread on this site about this study;

Low Utilization of Circulating Glucose after Food Withdrawal in Snell Dwarf Mice*


Interesting little quote about adiponectin;

Quote:
The elevation of adiponectin in Snell dwarf mice may increase insulin inhibition of glucose production and thereby contribute to the reduction of fasting glucose utilization.


Jenny at the Diabetes Update Blog sometimes posts on this forum. She wrote a while back about half a glass of wine every night improving her fasting blood glucose numbers in the morning. Alcohol, adiponectin, improved blood sugar. I've read other places that alcohol inhibits gluconeogenesis.
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  #48   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 17:56
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
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That's all very interesting. I already take 5000 UI/d of D3. I will have to look into vitamin K2 though.

Ah the French paradox! Maybe there is something about having a glass of wine every day. The alcohol itself plus the resveratrol in the wine.

Quote:
Niacin, prescribed in doses between 1000 and 2000 mg two to three times daily, blocks the breakdown of fats in adipose tissue (ref)

I'm not sure I want to intake an excess of Niacin (B3) if it does what this says.

Patrick
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  #49   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 18:18
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Quote:
In August 2007, it was reported that osteocalcin acts as a hormone in the body, causing beta cells in the pancreas to release more insulin, and at the same time directing fat cells to release the hormone adiponectin, which increases sensitivity to insulin. (ref)

I'm wondering now, since we are low-carbers, what this would do? It increases insulin and adiponectin (thus sensitivity to insulin) so that the glucose is actually used by the cells. But if we LC we don't have that much glucose to spare and we just want to flush the fat cells, I'm not sure how this would end up?

Patrick
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  #50   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 18:31
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Update on my experiment. I now feel worst than when I water fasted for 5 days in the past. I don't know why exactly what I'm doing is worst than not eating at all. But I feel lousy, cold, depressed and I have a headache plus a diarrhea. All that just after 2 and half days. So this is it.

I was thinking of trying a sort of easy Dr K. pemmican starting tomorrow. 84g whey & egg protein, 225g of butter and 16g carbs divided in 3 meals. I will thus be testing Dr K. ratios without upping the carbs to 1:0.8 at first. Also, this would be 2400 calories / day. So this will at least resolve my lack of energy.

Patrick
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  #51   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 18:37
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Nicotinic acid (niacin) favorably affects very-low-density lipoprotein (VLDL), low-density lipoprotein (LDL), and lipoprotein (a) (LP[a]) and increases high-density lipoprotein (HDL). Emerging data indicates vascular anti-inflammatory properties to additionally account for niacin’s proven effects in cardiovascular disease. Recent evidence indicates that niacin acts on GPR109A and GPR109B (HM74A and HM74, respectively), receptors expressed in adipocytes and immune cells. In adipocytes, GPR109A activation reduces triglyceride (TG) lipolysis, resulting in decreased free fatty acid (FFA) mobilization to the liver. In humans, this mechanism has yet to be confirmed because the plasma FFA decrease is transient and is followed by a rebound increase in FFA levels. New evidence indicates niacin directly inhibits diacylglycerol acyltransferase 2 (DGAT2) isolated from human hepatocytes, resulting in accelerated hepatic apolipoprotein (apo)B degradation and decreased apoB secretion, thus explaining reductions in VLDL and LDL. This raises important questions as to whether stimulation of GPR109A in adipocytes or inhibition of DGAT2 in liver by niacin best explain the reduction in VLDL and LDL in dyslipidemic patients. Kinetic and in vitro studies indicate that niacin retards the hepatic catabolism of apoA-I but not liver scavenger receptor B1-mediated cholesterol esters, suggesting that niacin inhibits hepatic holoparticle HDL removal. Indeed, recent preliminary evidence suggests that niacin decreases surface expression of hepatic β-chain of adenosine triphosphate synthase, which has been implicated in apoA-I/HDL holoparticle catabolism. GPR109A-mediated production of prostaglandin D2 in macrophages and Langerhan cells causes skin capillary vasodilation and explains, in part, niacin’s effect on flushing. Development of niacin receptor agonists would, theoretically, result in adipocyte TG accumulation (and clinical adiposity) and increased flushing. This raises questions about niacin receptor agonists as therapeutic agents. Several niacin receptor agonists have been developed and patented, but their clinical effects have not been described. Future research is needed to determine whether niacin receptor agonists will demonstrate all the beneficial properties of nicotinic acid on atherosclerosis and without significant adverse effects.



source

The discouragement of lipolysis only lasts a couple of hours.

There's stuff out there about nicotinamide improving blood sugar control while nicotinic acid worsens it.

Women have less visceral fat; and more fat everywhere else. They live longer too. I remember reading somewhere that in calorie restricted mice, the ones with the most body fat actually live longest.
Women also have higher levels of adiponectin and of hdl. Us guys got stuck with most of the visceral fat, and less adiponectin, at least on the SAD.

I'm kind of rambling here.
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  #52   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 18:51
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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This guy seems to agree with you.

Quote:
At first, I thought it was attributable to other factors. In real life, most people don't modify one factor at a time. They reduce processed carbohydrates/eliminate wheat and cornstarch, lose weight, add or increase omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil, begin niacin, increase exercise and physical activity. All these efforts also impact on HDL.

I will have to procure some K2 and Niacin (vit B3). My complex B 100 doesn't have that much B3. So what type of Niacin should I look for? I guess I can't just buy normal vitamin B3 in high doses?

Patrick
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  #53   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 19:30
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/con...tract/28/7/1368

Quote:
Background and Objective— Inflammation is pivotal in atherosclerosis. C-reactive protein (CRP), in addition to being a cardiovascular risk marker, may also be proatherogenic. We have previously shown that in addition to the liver, human aortic endothelial cells (HAECs) synthesize and secrete CRP. Whereas CRP levels are increased in obesity, metabolic syndrome, and diabetes, levels of adiponectin are reduced in these conditions. We tested the hypothesis that adiponectin reduces CRP synthesis and secretion in HAECs under normoglycemic (5.5 mmol/L glucose) and hyperglycemic conditions (15 mmol/L glucose).

Methods and Results— Adiponectin dose-dependently reduced CRP mRNA and protein from HAECs. Adiponectin treatment of HAECs significantly decreased I{kappa}B phosphorylation and NF{kappa}B binding activity. There was no effect of adiponectin on STAT or C/EBP transcriptional activity. Adiponectin also activated AMP kinase resulting in decreased NF{kappa}B activity and decreased CRP mRNA and protein. These effects of adiponectin were mimicked by AICAR, an activator of AMPK, and reversed by inhibition of AMPK. Thus, adiponectin reduces CRP synthesis and secretion from HAECs under hyperglycemia via upregulation of AMP kinase and downregulation of NF{kappa}B. Similar findings were observed in rat primary hepatocytes.

Conclusions— Thus, in obesity and diabetes, the hypoadiponectinemia could exacerbate the proinflammatory state by inducing CRP production.

We tested whether adiponectin reduces CRP synthesis and secretion in HAECs under normoglycemic (5.5 mmol/L glucose) and hyperglycemic conditions (15 mmol/L glucose). Adiponectin reduced CRP mRNA and protein under hyperglycemic conditions via upregulation of AMP kinase and downregulation of NFêB. Similar findings were observed in rat primary hepatocytes.

It looks like inhibiting the action of C-reactive protein could have the same result as increasing adiponectin. It might be easier to block something than to intake adiponectin?

Patrick
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  #54   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 20:33
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Most of what I posted was based on stuff from that blog, just trying to find independent sources of information that might indicate whether his claims of plaque removal from giving people those supplements made any sense. I think he's the genuine article. Your quest to increase adiponectin, and his to reduce coronary plaque and improve blood lipid parameters are one and the same quest.
The cheapest form of Niacin is the best, and also the safest to use. It's also the most commonly sold. Nicotinic Acid is the form that increases HDL. It should have a warning at the side of the bottle about flushing; the stuff turns you red and causes some itching at first. Dr Davis writes that plenty of water helps against this.
Niacin raises homocysteine; taking vitamin b6 reverses this effect.
I take Niacin myself, but I consider it riskier than the other things I supplement with (fish oil, vitamin d, vitamin k.) There's a possible argument that we're deficient in these other nutrients; the amounts of niacin that will have the desired effect here are way beyond anything that could ever be found in a natural diet.
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  #55   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 20:45
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Good ! So I will start Niacin at 1000mg once a day and then twice a day after a week. I will also get grape seed extract. And resveratrol if I can find it.

Thank you very much Teaser for all the info.

Patrick
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  #56   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-09, 20:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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You might want to take the Niacin once a day, maybe ask Davis about that in his comments section. Some forms of slow release niacin are dangerous to the liver; I'm not sure about splitting it up like that.
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  #57   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-09, 05:48
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I failed to give the most obvious warning about Niacin--the more you take, the more you flush. Taking a full gram right upfront might be kind of uncomfortable.
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  #58   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-09, 07:08
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Thank you Teaser. Then I'll buy 500 mg pills and start with one in the morning. And a week latter take 2 in the morning.

I'm down 2 more pounds today. I'm now testing the ratios P:F:C -> 1 : 2.5 : 0.2.

Patrick
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  #59   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-09, 07:37
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
Thank you Teaser. Then I'll buy 500 mg pills and start with one in the morning. And a week latter take 2 in the morning.

I'm down 2 more pounds today. I'm now testing the ratios P:F:C -> 1 : 2.5 : 0.2.

Patrick



Wait!!

Try your first niacin on the WEEKEND -- you do NOT want to pop a niacin, and then get caught in rush hour traffic on the way to work -- and THEN have the flush reaction for the first time.

The first time you have a classic Niacin Flush can be VERY scary, and it also can be VERY painful -- it's NOT at all what you are surmising, really.

AFTER you have firsthand experience in what precise symptoms YOUR own niacin flush will create, then you can take it whenever you want.

Plenty of people do NOT like the way niacin makes them feel, and one reason I will never take it ever again is NOT the flush, but the very peculiar insomnia it creates in me.

NO thanks! LOL
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  #60   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-09, 07:59
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Good advice Annie! I will try it today. If it's too much, I'll have to take IBU before taking the Niacin, but I'll see.

It looks like the best time to take Niacin is before bedtime...

Patrick

Last edited by Valtor : Sat, Apr-25-09 at 09:08.
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