Martin, humans do produce enzyme to digest carbohydrates. Why do you say it's not food. I know what you mean by that. That it's not healthy food for us and that we were maybe not meant to eat a lot. But why use the expression that it's not food? People outside these forums will close right up to an expression like that.

Patrick

People right here on this forum do close right up to an expression like that.

Martin -

I remember my own stint on VLC - prior to that I had been low-carbing (high fat) for about 2 years - carbs around 10- 30g a day. It was odd what happened, because at first I lost a little, then started gaining. Of course, it could have been for all kinds of reasons. I felt adapted in the sense that I had enough energy and the food was ok etc (no cravings). I think it was fat I gained because I developed a 'pooch' that hung over my jeans that wasn't there before-hand. There are too many variables though - stress etc to be sure it was diet to blame.

About stress hormones - I have read that cortisol rises on a VLC diet. I would think it would be high on a high -carb diet as well, but maybe going to either extreme isn't the healthiest.

Maybe it is simply a matter of being in lipolysis or not. I personally think that if you eat too much protein, not enough fat, too many carbs with too much protein (and not enough fat) then you won't be burning fat for energy enough of the time to burn your own. If though, you eat a lot of protein but no carbs and not enough fat but enough to stay out of rabbit starvation I think fat would be lost, but only because there isn't enough energy from the diet available. I have seen this happen to a zero-carber. I don't think it is healthy though, and certainly not really sustainable for most.

If my wife breastfeeds our child, is most of the milk not food?

That is the exception to the rule. We are mammals, we breastfeed our offsprings. Should we continue to drink milk when we lose the ability to process lactose? Milk is the perfect food for a baby but the argument fails when applied to adults because of the inability of some to process lactose.

I've been over this argument several times. I've not lost it yet. In my opinion, carbohydrate is not food. But if you believe it is, then don't mind me and go ahead and eat it.

Yep, I am another one who found VLC did NOTHING for me. I was on less than 10 carbs daily. I felt bad, became obsessed with food and was HUNGRY. My thyroid hormones also decreased. And my BG numbers went way up. Not good!

I went back to regular low carb and my BG numbers decreased, I became more energetic, I was WAY less hungry and had decreased cravings. In short, all the benefits people reported on ZC/VLC occur for me on LC.

I think VLC or zero carb can work for some people, as we are all unique individuals. However, I think a low carbohydrate diet is of use too. It's not ALL about the insulin.

Without knowing what you ate, my guess is that you didn't eat enough fat.

I noticed something about ZC and those who have problems with it. Most of those that I read about who have problems with ZC are women and don't eat enough fat. And invariably, they claim to feel better when adding back carbs. Why is it like this? I wouldn't know. But that's my limited observation.

I rendered tallow, used butter and deliberately ate fatty meat. I really don't see how I could have eaten more fat unless I drank it.

Then it's something else. I noticed your signature says you have a problem with your thyroid. I know virtually nothing about that but I'd say it has the potential to make a difference when switching diets especially considering that hormones are mostly made from cholesterol which is made from fat.

However, don't blame ZC for what a lifetime of high carb did. ZC will merely expose it. I'm not trying to convince to go back to ZC, I'm merely trying to explain that ZC is not to blame.

I am not saying ZC is to blame. I am just saying that we are all different. Some of us hyper secrete when we eat a lot of protein whereas others do not. I have no desire to knock zero carb. I just want people to recognise that protein can cause us to release excess insulin. Also I was not zero carb. I was VLC. I am just saying that as true zero carb is under five carbs.

I agree. We are all different. Some grow fat, while others remain lean. However, as Charles says, only the lucky ones grow fat. In other words, it's so obvious what it does to them that they can catch it early. For those who remain lean, it's quite insidious what a high carb diet does.

The solution to our obesity or fatness is not just zero carb though. Different amounts of macronutrients suit different people. Charles has always said we should listen to our body's cues and satiety levels. I have done so and my body does not give me cravings or excessive hunger now that I no longer VLC. Refined carbohydrates, additives and sugar are bad for everyone. After that, it is all highly individual. Charles may think only the lucky get fat and that is fine. However there are many slim and healthy people who eat way more carbs than you and I do.

Patrick, I have no idea how to research this, but I am very curious as to what nutritionists used to deem the optimum daily protein intake -- say, like in the 1930s, the 1950s and back around the turn of the century.

I'd love to know how the Recommended Daily Allowance for protein & carbs has changed through the decades.

Here you go: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=How+has+th...ver+the+decades

Great post, Scarlet!!