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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Mar-13-09, 17:13
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Default Symptoms associated with taking too much Vitamin D

I've only recently learned on these forums that it's important to take magnesium along with high-dose Vitamin D; had I known this, I would never have experimented with high dose Vitamin D, as I have never been able to tolerate ANY supplement OR bath-soak containing ANY form of magnesium.

I had NO idea that a whole number of various symptoms that I and some members of my family have exhibited here & there, off and on, during the past five years when we starting supplementing with D3 could be due to having elevated levels of calcium - which is medically termed hypercalcemia.

Anyway, I'm starting exploring the symptoms of Vitamin D toxicity and also symtoms associated with hypercalcemia.




.....increased calcium levels may cause the following:

Nausea
Vomiting
Alterations of mental status
Abdominal or flank pain (The workup of patients with a new kidney stone occasionally reveals an elevated calcium level.)
Constipation
Lethargy
Depression
Weakness and vague muscle/joint aches
Polyuria
Headache

Severe elevations in calcium levels may cause coma.



......Hypercalcemia has few physical examination findings specific to its diagnosis.

Often it is the symptoms or signs of underlying malignancy that bring the patient with hypercalcemia to seek medical attention.

The primary malignancy may be suggested by lung findings, skin changes, lymphadenopathy, or liver or spleen enlargement.

Hypercalcemia can produce a number of nonspecific findings, as follows:

Hypertension and bradycardia may be noted in patients with hypercalcemia, but this is nonspecific.

Abdominal examination may suggest pancreatitis or the possibility of an ulcer.

Patients with long-standing elevation of serum calcium may have proximal muscle weakness that is more prominent in the lower extremities; they also may have bony tenderness to palpation.

Hyperreflexia and tongue fasciculations may be present.

Anorexia or nausea may occur.

Polyuria and dehydration are common.

Lethargy, stupor, or even coma may be observed.


......If hypercalcemia is caused by sarcoidosis, vitamin D intoxication, or hyperthyroidism, patients may have physical examination findings suggestive of those diseases.....

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...e=UTF-8&strip=1
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Mar-13-09, 17:31
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Symptoms of Magnesium Deficiency

Deficiency symptoms of Magnesium Deficiency include:


Heart arrhythmia, irregular contraction, and increased heart rate.

Muscle weakness, spasms and tremors.

Softening and weakening of bone

No appetite

Vomiting

Seizures

Nausea

High blood pressure

Headaches

Imbalanced blood sugar

Depression


Toxicity Symptoms include:

Magnesium taken in very high doses of between 1000-5000 milligrams result in diarrhea, drowsiness and a feeling of weakness.


Cooking, Storing and Processing Affect Magnesium Content

Cooking foods high in magnesium like navy beans and spinach will result in a huge loss of magnesium. Other foods high in magnesium such as almonds and peanuts lose very little magnesium in the roasing process as long as the whole nut is used.


Other causes of Magnesium Deficiency

Digestive tract problems such as absorption difficulties, diarrhea, and ulcerative colitis are the most common cause of magnesium deficiency. Kidney disease and alcoholism can contribute to deficiency of this mineral. Different types of stress such as stress from colds, physical trauma and surgery also can cause a deficiency in magnesium.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Magnesium from Dietary Supplements

Magnesium is made in chelated or non-chelated form. Chelated forms include: magnesium citrate, magnesium glycinate, magnesium aspartate, and magnesium taurate. Non-chelated forms include magnesium oxide, magnesium sulfate, and magnesium carbonate.
Research has shown that the chelated forms of magnesium absorb better than the non-chelated forms.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Food Sources of Magnesium

The best sources are raw spinach and swiss chard.

Very good sources include broccoli, mustard greens, summer squash, halibut, blackstrap molasses, halibut, turnip greens, pumpkin seeds and peppermint.

Several good sources of magnesium include celery, cucumber, green beans, kale and a number of different seeds such as flax seeds, sunflower seeds, sesame seeds.


http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...e=UTF-8&strip=1
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-13-09, 17:42
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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The problem with spinach is that the oxalates bind up the minerals, at least they do with iron and calcium, not sure about magesium. Yes, those numbers look impressive but the amount you actually end up with is much, much less.

Beans have a similar problem with phytic acid and lectins.
Quote:
Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, and can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake, such as those in developing countries.[6] It also acts as an acid, chelating the vitamin niacin, which is basic, causing the condition known as pellagra. [7] In this way, it is an anti-nutrient.[1] For people with a particularly low intake of essential minerals, especially young children and those in developing countries, this effect can be undesirable.
I think you're obsessing over taking magnesium with vit d. I just haven't heard of anyone credible saying that this is something you have to do. Many people have lived in bright sunny climes and gotten a lot of vit. D without ever having to worry about taking magnesium or calcium supplements. How do you suppose all those lifeguards manage to survive a summer?
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-13-09, 17:47
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Thanks Nancy - I was curious how it could be a good source of the mineral magnesium, when it is known that both IRON and CALCIUM are not bioavailable in spinach.

I suspect that MAYBE turkey drumsticks MIGHT be a good source of magnesium and it would be in a digestable form. Perhaps even chicken legs - similarly a dark meat MIGHT have accessible magnesium.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Mar-19-09, 03:07
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I just haven't heard of anyone credible saying that this is something you have to do. Many people have lived in bright sunny climes and gotten a lot of vit. D without ever having to worry about taking magnesium or calcium supplements. How do you suppose all those lifeguards manage to survive a summer?


Hi there Nancy,

I'm the guilty party for having put it around about magnesium and Vitamin D. The source of my information was no less than Dr. Mary Dan Eades and I found the info in her (admittedly not so new) book, "The Doctor's Guide to Vitamins and Minerals", published in 2000, I believe, who I think can be called "credible" in our low-carb neck of the woods.

She writes (I paraphrase) that the intestine absorbs magnesium better when you take Vit D, so that taking Vit D could cause a "relative deficiency" in magnesium. There is a thread called "Crazy Vit D3 side-effects" and I posted this info on that thread. The poster in question started taking extra magnesium and said it made the "crazy side-effects" go away.

I have just looked at an article in the Globe and Mail which was in a Hutchinson post and there is a British couple who are talking about the same kind of problems as "meistro" and a few other people on this forum mentioned.

It does seem that taking Vit D3 as an ingested supplement (so it presumably takes completely different routes around the body as the Vit D3 made in the skin) causes a magnesium deficiency in some people and that taking extra magnesium can correct this.

But this is just anecdotal, of course, but sometimes, to be honest, given how shoddy the so-called "scientific studies" are, I am more inclined to believe anecdotal reports from real people rather than the rat studies and the epidemiological studies that are foisted on us as useful science.

As for calcium, well, I am personally very leery of calcium supplements and prefer to eat and drink my calcium! When you hear of all these arteries which have to be sawn through because of the huge calcium deposits in them, I conclude that it seems unlikely that we need more calcium, but instead, we need to make sure that the calcium in our bodies goes to the right places - to our bones, teeth and nails - and not into some kind of rubbish dump in our arteries. Here it would seem that magnesium and Vit D (as well as a few other things according to Stephan, like boron and Vit K) also have a role to play in ensuring optimal calcium absorption.

BTW, keep posting Stephan's blog posts - they're brilliant!

amanda
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Mar-19-09, 03:16
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
Anyway, I'm starting exploring the symptoms of Vitamin D toxicity and also symtoms associated with hypercalcemia.

[/url]


I did the same when I read in a German magazine about Vit D toxicity, but, if you look closely at the fine print, I think you will find that all these studies are related to Vit D2, not Vit D3.

In the 1950s, Vit D2 was used as a fortifying agent in various foods in large amounts. This caused the toxicity you mention and the symptoms of hypercalcemia etc.

As far as I know, there are no studies which have shown that Vit D3 has the same effects.

The Vit D2 used was a lab-made product; Vit D3 as used today is - I believe - extracted from the wool of sheep and is therefore a natural product.

I am sure that the various Vitamin D3 gurus out there would not be recommending high-dose supplementation of Vit D3 if there was any evidence of it causing these kind of horrible symptoms.

I recommend that you look again at the studies you have found and check whether they are talking about Vit D2 or Vit D3.

BTW, when you say you can't tolerate magnesium in any form, what symptoms do you get if you do take any? Just curious.

amanda
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Apr-07-09, 11:30
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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I get violent cramping diarrhea, no matter whether it's a supplement, or a bath in epsom salts. I've attempted to find a magnesium supplement for DECADES; I've even tried putting a half-teaspoon of epsom salts in my shoes - with the same reaction.

However.... I have recently found out about a condition called Fructose Malabsorption, (which is sometimes called Fructose Intolerance,) and one of its main presenting symptoms is chronic diarrhea.

I have withdrawn ALL obvious forms of fructose from my diet, and am eating a variety of low-fructose starchy foods like white rice, potatoes, and popcorn and ALL my digestive symptoms which have plagued my for DECADES have vanished.

It's quite extraordinary.

All those Official Orders to eat 9 servings of fruits & vegetables each & every single day have been making me ILL for DECADES.

It's simply shocking.

I'd never heard of Fructose Malabsorption, but they estimate that forty-six percent of Europeans have it, and that half of them are asymptomatic; in the USA, they believe that over one-third of Americans have Fructose Malabsorption.

Anyway, in a few weeks I am going to try out some "fancy" chelated magnesium supplement and see if MAYBE all those "healthy" fruits & vegetables have been destroying my health all these DECADES.

There's a few of us here who are eliminating high fructose and/or fructan-rich foods from our diets to see what happens.


Fructose Metabolism By The Brain Increases Food Intake And Obesity

LC Research/Media Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=393715
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Apr-07-09, 11:47
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood


....BTW, when you say you can't tolerate magnesium in any form, what symptoms do you get if you do take any? Just curious.

amanda



The HIGH dose D slowly over about 5 years started to create horrific spasms & intense burning in my nerves, paricularly legs, feet, toes, and occasionally hands/fingers -- these were NOT the "mere" potassium deficiency cramps that awaken one in the middle of the night, they were intensely bizarre, and sent me for a while to messageboards dealing with ALS.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Apr-07-09, 12:12
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
The HIGH dose D slowly over about 5 years started to create horrific spasms & intense burning in my nerves, paricularly legs, feet, toes, and occasionally hands/fingers -- these were NOT the "mere" potassium deficiency cramps that awaken one in the middle of the night, they were intensely bizarre, and sent me for a while to messageboards dealing with ALS.
I think other readers must take note of the fact that for normal individuals no adverse events occur from taking Vitamin D3.

If we look at this study Safety of vitamin D3 in adults with multiple sclerosis. they found starting at 28 000iu/week to 280 000 IU/wk (that's a whopping 40,000iu/daily) that no adverse events occurred with their MS patients.

Remember also that vitamin D3 is itself an INERT substance and the form advised D3 cholecalciferol, is biologically identical to the D3 human skin creates on exposure to UVB.

Two hydroxylations are required to convert D3 into it's active metabolite. Only then can it achieve any of it's many and varied enabling actions that occur in each and every single cell in our body allowing those cells to function properly.

While of course there are instances of highly photosensitive individuals who cannot be exposed to sunlight these are the exception and most normal people will suffer absolutely no adverse reaction to D3 Humankind would not have survived years living naked outdoors if that were indeed the typical response.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Tue, Apr-07-09 at 12:18.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jun-30-09, 04:08
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Default Lifeguards...

Quote:
I think you're obsessing over taking magnesium with vit d. I just haven't heard of anyone credible saying that this is something you have to do. Many people have lived in bright sunny climes and gotten a lot of vit. D without ever having to worry about taking magnesium or calcium supplements. How do you suppose all those lifeguards manage to survive a summer?


I just found a study - by chance - that said that a very high percentage of Israeli lifeguards get kidney stones... Not a nice experience.

They are undoubtedly not vitamin D deficient. Magnesium supplements can prevent the recurrence of kidney stones (calcium ones) in around 90% of people. So, how about this theory?

Apart from the fact that they could simply have been regularly dehydrated due to sitting out in the sun all day, sweating but not drinking enough, which would cause kidney stones, another possibility is that they were also magnesium deficient, which in turn brought about a defective calcium metabolism, which then produced kidney stones. I don't see your average Israeli lifeguard eating a "healthy diet" with lots of green veggies and nuts, somehow...

Oh, and by the way, have you seen that John Cannell is promoting a new supplement containing not just vitamin D, but also magnesium? It would seem that there are credible people out there who have made this connection, too. In the Vitamin D field, he has to be one of the most "credible" of them all, surely???

Found this old post whilst doing a Google search on this thread and couldn't resist answering it...

amanda
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Jun-30-09, 04:41
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Jun-30-09, 04:45
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson


Thanks for posting the link. That was precisely where I read about the kidney stones and lifeguards...

I haven't found the study on pubmed, though.

amanda
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Jun-30-09, 22:53
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skeeweeaka skeeweeaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
The HIGH dose D slowly over about 5 years started to create horrific spasms & intense burning in my nerves, paricularly legs, feet, toes, and occasionally hands/fingers -- these were NOT the "mere" potassium deficiency cramps that awaken one in the middle of the night, they were intensely bizarre, and sent me for a while to messageboards dealing with ALS.


Interesting...I am taking high levels of vitamin D3 and recently started getting burning in my feet. I noticed when I take magnesium oxide that it goes away....noticed it recently but didn't make the connection until now...

Thanks for the insight!

TJ
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-09, 22:47
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MariJaneTN MariJaneTN is offline
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I know I'm a little late on this thread, I'm so confused with all the symptoms and the conditions and illnesses... Google this- hypochondriac. I'm just saying...
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-09, 13:19
jcass jcass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
I recommend that you look again at the studies you have found and check whether they are talking about Vit D2 or Vit D3.


If you see a vit D toxicity study you can be assured it was done with with synthetic D2. Vitamin D2 does not exist in normal diets except in trace amounts. Inconsequential amounts.

If you see a vit A toxicity study you can be assured that it was done with synthetic vitamin A analogues that exist in trace amounts or not at all in nature. Most of these analogues are used in enormous doses for acne and other skin problems. They are used instead of safe vitamin A (retinol) because they are patentable.

If you see a vit E toxicity study the results are not statistically significant and they used synthetic E.

Matter of fact the only NATURAL vitamin I can even think of that can easily be overdosed is good old Vitamin C, which of course, is a fine laxitive in excess.

But what it all comes down to is the vegetarians and processed food industry HATE fat soluble vitamins because they are found in animal foods and any talk about deficiencies in these vitamins testifies against their food dogma. So they fill the literature with their deceptive studies.
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