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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-10-09, 10:26
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default Considering Stillman's

I still haven't seen the scale change and it has been over 6 weeks now. I am thinking of trying Stillman's. Someone please advise. How long should I do this to break the stall? Are there any reasons I should not try this?

I have read the sticky on here, and I am convinced I should try something else to get things moving at this point besides tweaking the diet. I know I don't have much to lose, but believe I should have seen a weight decrease in the past 6 weeks at 25 to 30 carbs. The only "cheat" I have had is some wine or vodka once a week and I'd change plans altogether before I'd give that up.

Also, I have been much more constipated the past week than ever while OP. I drink at least 80 ounces of water and am getting at least 12 - 14 of my 25 carbs daily from fiber. I take flax, magnesium, acidolphilus, and on the days I don't take the flax oil cap, I have a flaxseed muffin.

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate all of you here and hope someone can give me the encouragement I need at this point.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Mar-11-09, 22:47
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Red face

I guess I will now reconsider the WW Core plan - which is evidently like South Beach II. I really am trying to reduce and I want to do this prior to completing menopause - that's for sure. However, I love Atkin's, and believe in this WOE but perhaps, it won't work for me (to get thinner) now, since I am very close to goal and have "played around" too much with 10 or 15 pounds for the last decade.

I think the "One Shot Deal" may be true for me. This plan worked for me at 42- no plateaus included - but at 46, this is a totally different situation.

Either it works, or it doesn't though. I am a stickler........I will tell the truth! Maybe I am too impatient....but 6 weeks is a long time to see no change on the scale whatsoever. I want to be 132 and haved remained 145 since induction (mid Jan 09). Would be glad to make my Fitday public, but that is boring!

It just ain't hap'ning for me right now! DAYUUUUM!

Last edited by aeroangie : Wed, Mar-11-09 at 23:17.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 08:27
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

I don't know anything about Stillman's or even WW Core, but there's also something called "Atkins KIS" that I found on here a long time ago. It's not the same as a meat/egg fast or even a 'fat fast' - it's a very *clean* version of induction, but with unlimited vegetables (from a list), meat and olive oil.

I'm not so hot at the search function, so I can't find the threads which detail the Atkins KIS variation, but it's something you might want to consider. Lots of people on the forums like to try it just after the Christmas/New Year's holidays to kick things into gear, and get 'going' again on weight loss.

If I find the threads about it, I'll post the links in here for you to take a look at. It's very effective, if a wee bit boring. Not low-fat either, just a super clean variation on 'induction', so to speak.

Also - while I'm certainly not all that up on South Beach, I'm pretty sure that I've seen JudyNYC advise people who are switching from Atkins to South Beach, that it's best to start with Phase 1 I think? Might want to go over to the South Beach section of the forums and ask.

Hang in there - you'll get this happening, one way or another!
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 08:34
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

never mind - the links are outdated. There were some really good threads around here about the 'Keep it Simple Sweetie' version of Atkins, but I can't seem to find them. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Citruskiss : Thu, Mar-12-09 at 08:53.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 09:11
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citruskiss
I don't know anything about Stillman's or even WW Core, but there's also something called "Atkins KIS" that I found on here a long time ago. It's not the same as a meat/egg fast or even a 'fat fast' - it's a very *clean* version of induction, but with unlimited vegetables (from a list), meat and olive oil.

I'm not so hot at the search function, so I can't find the threads which detail the Atkins KIS variation, but it's something you might want to consider. Lots of people on the forums like to try it just after the Christmas/New Year's holidays to kick things into gear, and get 'going' again on weight loss.

If I find the threads about it, I'll post the links in here for you to take a look at. It's very effective, if a wee bit boring. Not low-fat either, just a super clean variation on 'induction', so to speak.

Also - while I'm certainly not all that up on South Beach, I'm pretty sure that I've seen JudyNYC advise people who are switching from Atkins to South Beach, that it's best to start with Phase 1 I think? Might want to go over to the South Beach section of the forums and ask.

Hang in there - you'll get this happening, one way or another!


I'll jump in here to mention that when Citruskiss( Hi Sara! ) was stalled for months on end, it was by upping her carbs a bit that got her weight loss moving a bit.
If you are not getting at least 15 grams of your carbs from Induction veggies, that may be the issue.
Yes, it is best to do SBD phase I when switching over from Atkins. I think that WW Core is a SBD copy cat!!

I gave you advice when you first got here and was shot down by the high fat/vlc contingent on this site. I backed out of it simply because I do want to debate this issue. But if it did not work for you, you're right to seek another way.

Yes, please make your fitday public and give a link.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 13:13
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

Yes Judy. I remember you! I have done Weight Watcher's flex before, and was given 1500 cals per day (because I work out very hard and have reactive hypoglycemia.) I can't do that program well because wheat is just one food that causes my problem, not to mention I felt bad on that program. I have some issues related to lactose and fructose also.

I did decide now to lower the calories on Atkin's to under 1600 (if I am not going to workout that day) and then to around 1700 on days I am running and or lifting weights. The recent modification I have decided to try is to reduce the fat some and to introduce leaner meats more consistently.

The higher fat was supposed to work, and I must say, though I lost inches (am comfortably in a 6) I normally wear a 4 and don't want to wait 6 or 8 months to see these few extra pounds lost.

My endocrinologist said anything below 1500 is not sufficient fuel and I shouldn't attempt a lower calorie program or I'll risk losing LBM as well as aggravating my hypoglycemia. So, I am kind of in a quandry. If I could get the Atkin's program to work again, I'd be very happy but honestly, I feel like I am having to spend too much time tweaking (cutting out cheese, lowering the fat and calories, now worrying about citric acid, etc.) which was why I am considering Stillman's.

Since I dislike beans, can't have bread or brown rice, and have reactions to fructose (fruit) I jusdt don't know what else I can do! It is so frustrating - watching my husband lose like crazy on Atkin's while I feel like I am at a stand still. He does have a lot more to lose so I keep telling myself that! My percentage of bodyfat isn't high (about 23% right now) and I keep telling myself that too. I am probably a more complex case for someone to try to figure out. I mentioned the Atkin's fat fast to my doctor and he got angry so again, I am looking at Stillman's.

Citriskiss - I'd love to see the Atkin's KISS menu! I will google for it!

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU!

How do I make my Fitday public? ALso, I don't usually log my workouts on there. I workout 5 days per week:

1. running at 5.0 mph for 50 minutes (1-2x weekly) - steady state
2. interval training (2x weekly) - 1 hour
3. weight lifting or core training 3 to 4x per week
4. step aerobics - power hour - 1 to 2x weekly

Last edited by aeroangie : Thu, Mar-12-09 at 14:53.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 14:04
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

Ok - I finally found a link that describes Atkins KISS well:

http://www.geocities.com/lajenner/KISS.html

That said - with your level of exercise, you would be better off on strict Atkins Induction or strict South Beach Phase 1. I'd be worried that something like KISS could potentially be lower in calories than your 1500 calorie cut off. It's basically eating meat/fish/eggs/vegetables and olive oil, and nothing else. No processed meats, no dairy - you get the idea. Pretty strict plan. The food itself is unlimited, but the categories you get to choose from are limited. Meat, eggs, fish, vegetables, olive oil. That's all.


And yet - with regard to regular Atkins...

It's not that you have to 'tweak' so much, it's more likely that you have to get really good at your plan of choice. It's fine to make modifications to allow for food dislikes and/or intolerances, but if you adhere to the plan very closely - I'm *sure* you'll get somewhere.

I used to try out 'super strict' plans when Atkins wasn't working for me. Tried out something called a PSMF for a few days (too tough), tried meat/eggs for about a week etc. I did these things because Atkins 'wasn't working'.

But, it wasn't Atkins - it was me. There were several rules of induction that I wasn't following properly.

With your exercising - I'd recommend choosing a published plan (South Beach, Atkins, Protein Power etc.) and *mastering* the plan. Do it for just two weeks. If some food isn't on 'the list' or 'allowable', then don't eat it. If there's something you don't like or can't tolerate, it's fine to drop it, but don't go changing everything else around.

Also - be aware that hard-core 'induction' can create what's known as 'induction flu' and it isn't all that conducive to the level at which you're exercising. It's not that you can't exercise - just that the first couple of weeks are tough. I tend to view Atkins induction as more of a 'detox' than anything - a way of getting off the sugar roller coaster. If this isn't what's needed - then you could choose another level/rung/phase or another plan entirely.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. Not my intention at all. Pick a plan, decide which phase/level/rung you're following and zero in on it - do everything you can to follow it closely.

Hope this helps.

Signed,

Former 'Quick Fix' Seeker
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 14:06
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroangie
Since I dislike beans, can't have bread or brown rice, and have reactions to fructose (fruit) I jusdt don't know what else I can do! It is so frustrating - watching my husband lose like crazy on Atkin's while I feel like I am at a stand still. He does have a lot more to lose so I keep telling myself that! My percentage of bodyfat isn't high (about 23% right now) and I keep telling myself that too. I am probably a more complex case for someone to try to figure out. I mentioned the Atkin's fat fast to my doctor and he got angry so again, I am looking at Stillman's.


As I said, increase your Induction veggies and keep your protein lean and 4-5 ounces per meal. I'd knock out the flax and see if that helps. Nuts and cheese much?

I agree on the calorie level for you with all the exercise that you do. Do you enjoy yogurt? do you snack at all?

I eat 1/2 cup of yogurt with my morning coffee.
Late morning/early lunch I will eat a big bowl of chicken veggie soup or turkey chili, both with a lot of veggies.
Mid afternoon, I have a piece of fruit sometimes and or a cup of hot soup if I'm really cold from being outside.
Dinner- when I'm seeking weight loss, I go for fish a lot....5-7 ounces and a lot of veggies. Sauteed spinach is especially good when I want to see loss. I eat a lot of fatty salmon, tuna, tilapia, shrimp, red snapper, my fav!! Steak and mock mashed is a favorite of mine too.

I do late night snacking and this is where I have 1 Wasa daily, also 100 cals of dark choclate as my sweet for the day.

I find that keeping my protein to smallish amounts and eating large volumn of veggies is key for my body to lose wieght....and I'm 58 yrs old and well into menopause. I began my journey this time at age 54. I'll be 59 soon...yikes!!
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 14:49
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

Hey Cit - I did do a really clean induction! I thought I had a problem with the "induction flu" but I had actually lost too much salt. I have a rare type of diabetes (Dipsogenic) which is related to water, not sugar. It's nothing I have to be concerned about unless I have an electrolyte imbalance or get overly hydrated. What I thought was induction flu was actually over hydration. This is unlikely to happen again, but I couldn't train at all for over a week because of that. My endo says many times, what people think is "induction flu" is a sudden and radical change in homeostasis. This was the only time since I have been on Atkin's that he was really angry (saying I was taking something to an extreme.)

Tell me if this link works. You can look over my meals for the past several weeks and see why I am wanting to do something different. I think I have been OP. Do tell me what changes I can make or if you think I should try something else. I will be an Atkin's lifer, this I know, but right now, I need to reduce.

http://fitday.com/fitness/FoodLog.html

Last edited by aeroangie : Thu, Mar-12-09 at 15:20.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 15:25
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

You know - just a quick post to say that I once had that salt imbalance too. Pretty weird eh? I was on Atkins induction, working outside in the hot sun, loading up a truck full of lumber and doors and stuff from Home Depot. Got what I thought was the usual 'induction flu' or 'ketosis' or whatever...but it turned out that I was low on salt. Very odd. Makes me nervous, to be honest.

Ok - off to look at your fitday thing.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 15:27
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

I clicked on your link, but all I got was a log-in page. I've never used FitDay though, so perhaps someone else could help with 'making it public' or whatever needs doing.

I can sense your frustration with this (the diet stuff I mean) - sorry to hear it's been such a tough thing to figure out.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 15:35
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citruskiss
I clicked on your link, but all I got was a log-in page. I've never used FitDay though, so perhaps someone else could help with 'making it public' or whatever needs doing.


Yes, you need to go to your Fitday account and look for the option to allow others to view your page.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 16:36
aeroangie's Avatar
aeroangie aeroangie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,087
 
Plan: Dr. Eric Westman's/Atkins
Stats: 150/148/132 Female 5'-4"
BF:
Progress: 11%
Location: NC Southern Outer Banks
Default

OK - I think this is it!

I so appreciate the time you ladies are giving me. Please do look at other days besides the first that pops up. I usually don't eat too much processed stuff, but do if I don't have fresh and haven't grocery shopped.

http://fitday.com/fitness/PublicJou...?Owner=reelkeel
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 17:41
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
Default

Yes, I could see it this time.

I did look at a few days worth. I think that you are eating too much protein from packages/processed. That type of protien is way too high in sodium and will mask/inhibit your weight loss attempts.

I'd say no to pastrami, deli meats of any kind, go easy on the bacon....and start to have an awareness of just how much sodium you are getting in a day. Suggested daily total as per some, is 2500 mgs....I try to keep it at 1500 mgs.

So, you've got a thing with overhydrating....too much salt in your diet will not be good for that, right?

Each week, I buy and marinate 2 lbs of chicken breast, in my own homemade marinades. I pre-cut them into 1 oz pieces so I can grab 4 pieces and know its 4 ozs. I like my chicken hot and garlicy and make them that way.

Last night I had salmon filets pan fried in a szechuan sauce, very low sodium. I made 4x 5 oz filtets. I had one last night with sauteed brussel sprouts and zucchini in garlic, evoo and red pepper.
Tonight I will have another one of those filets in a big salad w/ olives and a 1/4 avocado and lots of greens and other misc stuff.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-09, 18:32
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

I took a look too - and it sure looks like flawless Atkins to me. You've tried really hard to get this thing down pat, and I'm impressed!

The only thing nagging at me is that while you're likely meeting your minimum protein intake (something you'd find in The Protein Power Life Plan, by Drs. Michaeal and Mary Dan Eades) - I can't help but think that someone who exercises as much as you do might need *more* protein, especially with weight training. I don't have my Protein Power Life Plan book handy - it's got these good charts in there for determining one's minimum protein intake, so I'm sort of 'guessing' that you're likely meeting the minimum, or even a wee bit over.

That's all well and good - but I think someone who exercises as much as you do might need more.

One other little thing that's occurred to me - and this is something I'm just starting to learn about from a bit of reading here and there, so forgive me for not articulating this too well - there is something called the 'thermal effect of feeding' - meaning, you can increase your metabolism with eating more often, and weight training in general seems to increase this TEF thing that I'm starting to learn about.

Where am I going with this? Well, chicken is very high in protein - so that's good, but I'm wondering if you're maybe trying too hard to get 'percentages' exactly right on Atkins, without considering your exercise level. If you're eating chicken and trying to keep protein consumption reined in to some idealized "Atkins" standard - it's possible that you're not getting enough food. I'm not talking about calories here, but how much and how often you get to eat. It's possible that with the extra work you do with the exercising, in conjunction with the way you're following the Atkins plan is putting you into a bit of a starvation mode, so to speak. I know this sounds really weird - because we're not looking at a super-low calorie intake - but if the body's thinking, "I've got all this work to do..." and you're not eating a whole lot or all that often - it might want to try and 'conserve', if you get my drift.

With respect to the protein - it's ok to go 'over' on protein (imo), especially for someone who exercises a lot. In fact, I think it's important to do so.

I realize this isn't the usual 'up your fats' thing that you'd expect to hear. I'm suggesting maybe increasing your protein intake a wee bit, and increasing the amount of food you get - choose some meats/foods that aren't quite as high as chicken (for protein I mean) so that you get to eat more, and more often.

And believe it or not - you probably need more carbs, and not less.

Have you had a chance to move along the 'carb ladder' much yet?

Also - I agree with Judy in the sense that processed meats can be a bit of a problem sometimes. Deli meats and bacon, that kind of thing. They're good in a pinch, but maybe not all the time.

This is very interesting - what I'm seeing is a great Atkins plan, plus tons of exercise - and a big stall. Something's not right. I'm guessing your body is 'conserving' - thinks it's not getting enough to handle the workload or something. Just my nagging thought. I'm actually thinking, "Eat more food" - that's the general idea that's popped into my head after thinking about what you're experiencing.

Last edited by Citruskiss : Thu, Mar-12-09 at 21:10.
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