For the record, the original post referred to "getting off of oral meds or injections".... The original poster is a type 2 diabetic.

I was on oral meds and was told my pancreas was giving out on me and that soon it would no longer produce insulin. With the medications, I could not keep my BG under 200. I was literally going to hell in a hand basket and took matters into my own hands, science or no science studies to back up anything.

I not only got off of prescription diabetic medications, I got off of 7 other prescription medications.

I don't buy into that crap about the pancreas not producing insulin and dead beta cells.......... There isn't a way anyone can know for sure what their beta cells can and cannot do by changing up on diet, etc.... Hope! what else can we do, but hope for a better outcome......???

Thank you cajunboy. I have had my doubts too about the beta cells dying off although I'm nowhere near anything being close to a scientist. But your post is encouraging.

So we have hope and that is terrific.

And right now we continue to learn.

Low Carbs helps.

Apparently, raw vegetables helps; based on the video Cajunboy47 brought to us for consideration.

Also, losing weight helps; now that is my challenge.

So I can hope that if I get my act together a bit better, lose weight and control what I eat a bit better, my dependencies on meds will be reduced.

That is good.

Perhaps, I can get to zero on some of these meds.

I take four meds for high blood pressure; get the weight off and these probably are reduced or go away.

I take 40 units of basal insulin in the AM and PM (levemir). Lose weight and keep my diet toward low carbs and perhaps more raw vegetables and this is dramatically reduced, if not totally eliminated.

Keep any one meal under 20 grams of carbs for me and I don't really need any bolus insulin (Novolog).

I am type 2.

So having been around this forum for almost two years now, what I just wrote above I had no, none, totally ignorant, dumb , etc., knowledge about anything about controlling diabetes.

Now, I have a direction and as Cajunboy47 says that direction can be changed and methods can be introduced and changed with the objective always of the end result of controlling my diabetes as measured by my meter and my A1C tests.

So now I walk around with BFG levels usually around 100. I keep my BG around 80-110 in between meals and I try like heck to keep it from going over 140, but I do indulge in all the "non-desired" foods that I don't quite give up completely.

But I am better off today because of the knowledge and discussions we share here constantly.

Cajunboy47 tried like heck to get me to use herbs and be faithful to my low carb. I am pretty faithful to low carb but occasionally it goes out the window. I had success as compared to my numbers before doing anything to control my diabetes. My A1Cs before control were 9.3 and now in the high 5's , like 5.4, 5.6, and 5.8. Now I have it at 5.2.

But I wanted better given the circumstances of my habits good or bad and the desire to lower my BFG and BG under 100 and maybe get my A1C under 5.0 and emulate "normal" as much as possible.

Again, as I look back at what I am writing in this post, all this knowledge, experimenting, improvement in lifestyle is all a result of sharing all kinds of information here, reading Dr. B's book, etc. and all of your kind support.

Can I do better; certainly. But I tell you what I am better off now compared to most people who are totally ignorant, non-inquisitive about this disease and still accept archaic advice from Doctors that aren't up to date on how to control this disease.

By the way I was considering Bariatric Gastric By-Pass and one of the first things the surgeon stated is for reasons they do not understand, the by-pass immediately gets a diabetic patiend off of insulin or "cures" it. He agreed in a private discussion with me that it is controlled not cured and perhaps most patients are dramatically improved and reduce their insulin to minimal if they are type 1s and off of it completely if they are type 2s. Both this surgeon and the cardiologist I am now seeing talk in terms of me reversing my disease (again Type 2) if I get probably 70 pounds off and soon since I am still early into this journey as a diabetic. I countered back to them that Phase I response is gone. Is there any evidence that it comes back and I did not get a reply but an acknowledgement. So the conversation was more about control and improvement; dramatic improvement and guess what I will take that.

Now, to get the weight off.

And thank you all for being here for me, for others so we can all learn and make the best of this situation that we have truly brought onto ourselves in most cases; especially the epidemic outbreak of Type 2 in the last couple of decades.

Ralph

Ralph,

Perhaps, now you'll say I'm not so kind, but I'm not only concerned how you're doing today, but how you'll be doing tomorrow. So, I'll HOPE you understand my truest meaning and not feel offended or attacked.

When I am reading your writings; I see a man who knows he eats too many carbs. This wise man learned that he can take insulin to control BG and still eat excessive carbs and "emulate" normal BG levels in this way.... But, their must be an inner voice inside this man that tells him, controlling BG is not enough, because he has concluded he needs to lose the weight. This man at some level, realizes that carbohydrates is his enemy, but his desire to consume these carbohydrates is stronger than his desire to control the intake of them. So, this man chooses what he sees as a way out of his dilemna, "lap-band surgery"......

Ralph, I didn't have as many pounds to shed, but I share your problems with carbs... I love them too................ In my beginning, I didn't realize what I know now and I'll share this with you. At one level, I know you already know this, but if you can learn it at the level at which it really counts, you'll take my words to heart and a true change can take place within you that might help you in your fight with those damn carbs that we so love and hate....

Cutting out all carbs will accelerate weight loss. At some point, enough weight loss allows a person to feel better, then a person feels like doing more regular exercise and then more weight loss can occur. It is like taking a downward spiral and turning it upside down to spiral things upward for a change......

After sufficient weight loss, either the pancreas starts producing sufficient insulin, or the body starts using the insulin more efficiently. All of a sudden, you can enjoy many of the carbs that once gave you trouble.

I shouldn't say this, as it might make others go on a carb binge, but my last A1c was a 5.4, but truthfully, I think on most days my carbs were about 35%, never less than 30% and on about 1/5th of those days, I might have consumed as much as 60% carbs......... I didn't take as many herbs as I used to take and I didn't take them with any degree of regularity. As a matter of fact, my wife tells me the herbs are more effective if taken 30 minutes before I eat and in the last 6 months, I don't think I took the herbs once before I ate a meal......

I'm not walking around as a thin man yet.... I am currently weighing 165, 10 pounds over my goal weight, but guess what? I realize that when I was young and weighed 155, I had a lot more muscle. Now, most likely, I need to get my weight down to about 145 to lose all the fat, so I'm most likely walking around with an extra 20 pounds of fat while having my carb/bg story to talk about.....

Removing carbs is not a forever thing. Something happened for me in my metabolism, something totally different from before. I can't prove anything about what exactly did it. I just know it can be done, because I did it....

My concern for you is that after a lap-band surgery, even though you know you need to still change your diet to be successful at weight loss and BG control, is that the surgery will leave you feeling like you're now having to battle with another problem and the current one still won't be resolved.

In my beginning to change things, I felt so overwhelmed by diabetes. I started taking it a day at a time, losing my anxiety and thoughts about the future. I took it a meal at a time. I lost about 20+ pounds in about a 2 year period before going to China, then I lost 30+ pounds in just 4 months while in China. If something isn't working, change it! I suppose that along with hope, that was my driving force. The way I was doing it was not working for me like I wanted.

For me, my wife's changing my diet completely from anything I've read or tried turned my life around. Herbs turned my diabetes around also. Exercise turned my diabetes around.

Anyway, I know you've considered all these things. All I ask is that while you wait for your surgery, try going carbless, try taking herbs, try different things.... Read what I quoted you as writing. Your own words speak very loudly to what I am trying to convey to you....

I care about you man!

Ron

Ron,

Thanks.

No offense taken.

The little voice in me is saying I don't need the Lap Band.

I need support groups such as here.

I need to make a true commitment to less carbs or nor carbs and I need to avoid breads, rice, potatoes, pasta, bagels, cookies and sugar products.

I also have heart disease most recently discovered and have joined yet another forum named trackingyourplaque; led by a cardiologist and others out in Wisconsin.

More of the same wisdom from this group.

So, yesterday I made a new commitment to get my act together. I am walking one mile a day again. I am now cutting back heavily on carbs.

I need to get the weight off. If I get the first 20 off and get under 260 into the 250s I will feel a whole lot better and able to exercise more; just as you describe.

So here I go!

Ralph

Ralph,

You can do it...........

Focus on healthy things to do and the weight loss will take care of itself....

Also, I'm guessing you're taking a multitude of supplements as I've done in the past. If I may suggest, if that is the case, split them up into 4 or 5 times per day to take them and each time with a nice big healthy glass of water.... Eat smaller meals and tell yourself its ok to do so because you can always eat more later if you're still hungry. I suspect you're like me in many ways in attitude toward foods. You probably hate to leave anything on the plate and if its there you rarely think of eating some of it later.

I have never drectly told anyone to take anything or to not take anything, but I trust you're a monitor often person, so I'm not too concerned with making a strong suggestion to you. Don't be shy at kicking questions back at me, or trying to get others to offer comments or opinions.

Berberine hcl is fairly safe to take and I don't think it interferes with other medications. I just want to point out that when taken at 500mg doses for 90 days, it will most likely lower your cholesterol considerably, lower your blood pressure, lower your blood sugar, and very subtly help with weight loss. It is not an appetite suppressant, but something about it assists in helping to lose weight.

I'm merely suggesting that you try it for 90 days and see if it does not help. I suspect that if you can get yourself to walk 15-20 minutes one to three times a day, plus using the berberine, you'll see amazing changes at the 90 day mark...

Anyway, think about it.... You must ultimately decide. I don't know all your particulars, but I do know we both share the "Brain knows better, but deceives me often" syndrome....

Ron

Anyone know anything about glutithione? I've heard this is really supposed to help with all the above mentioned things as well. Another thing I've found for myself is that if I start my day off with a coffee , I pretty much know that I will fail that day in eating healthy. If I start my day off with a green smoothie. I have success!! I've never taken berberine Hcl -what brand do you find is best. I'm going to go look for it today. I'm willing to try just about anything that will help. Thanks!! bye for now. Suzy

Vivid Lily,

the info you want is in the berbine hcl thread in this forum, but if you use it, be sure and monitor and maybe also read up about it........ Be careful if taking prescription meds for blood sugar control and the berberine. I also have my herbal use well documented in my journal if you have the time to check it out....

Nancy, and all the others, of course, what do you think about this?

http://www.citeulike.org/group/5070/article/2949599

this suggests that the whole diabetes thing is more of a nerve/digestive tract imbalance, no matter what type, excepting Type I Mody.

We know that carbs act like a drug and that excessive carbs are quite detrimental to the nervous system and I guess that they stimulate the growth of some specific, probably toxic, flora in our guts.

It seems, according to the findings of another member, that gluten is an opiate analogue, we all know what opiates do to our nervous system.

I know, that extreme carb intake, makes me extremely agressive and nervous.

I really think that this gene hypothesis is somehow difficult to swallow, more if you see how many pets are suddenly diabetics as well, is there any study if anyone has caught a diabetic animal in the wild? Or a diabetic human that has a "wild" style of living (hunter/gatherer)?

And this one is for you Ron, it's about the supposed "obliteration" of beta cells in a GAD65Ab positive diabetic:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cg...nt/22/4/615.pdf

Yet some of the medical inteligentsia posture that they really know what's going on...

Weird...

Nah! not for me, it takes too much time and effort to read those case studies and medical jargon..... I've come to realize it is too stressful to read all that. I keep it much simpler, sort of like your green tongue experiement.

I try it, if it works, I do it again. If it doesn't work, I do something else, if it stops working after first working, I do something else, etc.....

Comparing oneself to oneself is a lot more productive than reading about possible or theoretical solutions that are usually conducted in some biased or flawed arena.....

I'm all for science experimenting and trying to find cures. I just don't think my reading and getting all wrapped up in understanding the "micro" of it all is beneficial to me. That type of "head knowledge" often does little to improve my physical health in my opinion. I don't mind reading summaries that are written in laymen's terms, especially if pros and cons are listed...

So, is it still green?

Yep, light green now, but the tip has cleared and the tongue looks smoother...

I'm pretty sure it is the BMOV, at least now I'm sure that it is contained in those pills.

I missed is it still green thing.

What r u talking about?

Hey Cajunboy - three days into my new commitment and doing well.

My morning BFG have dropped back into the 80s too.

I am also following some heart healthy things as well.

I can tolerate oats and oats will help plaque and LDL reduction.

I will look into the Berberine hcl .

I continue to take my basal insulin (Levemir) 40 units in the AM and in the PM.

The last two days I have had to use minimal bolus (Novolog).

This morning I covered the 1 cup of oatmeal with Novolog. Even if I didn't take the bolus my upper end of BG would have been 140. But this way, it stays even lower.

Again, my prime objective is keeping my A1C in the low 5's and perhaps getting into 4.6-5.0 range.

The weight is coming off. Too soon to get excited. Must stay disciplined.

If this stalls for a period of time, I wll pursue a medically assisted program to get my weight down to the 230 range more quickly and then resume my low carb heart healthy approach.

My cardiac catscan calcium score is 1107 and that is way high by all standards I have researched. Also, once you have plaque, it tends to grow 30% per year unless you take specific measures to counter the growth and to change your lifestyle; ahem maybe this is the final wake up call for me.

I have added Carlson's fish oil. It turns out that EPA + DHA in levels 3000mg and up help and reverse the plaque situation in your arteries.

So I take two teaspoons of Carlson's Lemon Flavored Fish Oil daily one in the morning with meal and one in the evening with dinner.

I also take Krill Oil which has another 440mg of EPA + DHA.

What I am reading over in my TrackYourPlaque forum, and I am brand new over there, is Omega 3 is so important and also the reduction of Omega 6.

This is all about preventing a heart attack and if you do get one surviving it.

The fish oils stabilize the existing plaque so you are not likely to get the Tim Russert happening.

Yes, I take all kinds of supplements too.

Still take Metformin ER 1000mg in the AM and 1000mg in the PM. I have a feeling I may not need all of this, but I will wait and see.

I take Norvasc, Avapro and furosemide along with prescription Potassium to control my blood pressure. I am going to ask the doctor to review this potion and see if I can find another approach. The Norvasc leads to "fat" legs; too much water in my legs. It is a side effect.

So I am on a new journey, a new path. I have somewhat stolen this thread and I apologize.

Getting back to "getting off of insulin" I would hope these new actions I am taking will ultimately lead to less insulin requried for me; a type 2 that I am.

Also, fish oil improves insulin sensitivity.

Thank all of you for your support.

Ralph

Ralph,

I recognize "correct frame of mind" as your most important weapon, and this is a war, really! Good luck in your daily battles and remember, you don't have to win ever battle to win the war!!!

That berberine will amaze you in the lowering effects of cholestero and BG. Monitor often when you start. I suspect you'll be cutting back very quickly on the insulin.

Keep up the good work on your diet and exercise habits. A new habit practiced daily becomes reinforced after a few weeks of routine to become a new lifestyle and just an everyday thing....

I am excited for you!!!

Ron

Ralph, glad to hear you joined TYP! I hope you'll be another success story!

This is really about life and death when you think about it. It really is.

I am 65 and would like to make it well into my 80s.

I need to do things to make that possible.

So, day 4 and we are doing well.

Yes, it is a frame of mind.

Ralph