There are none.

It is unsupported to say "there hasn't been enough time to adapt to agriculture". Changes in allele frequencies are not determined by time, but heritability and selectivity. This is why we have observed speciation in our lifetimes.

Of course, this fact is not particularly relevant because the notion that evolution is required for a change in diet to become beneficial, and that the new diet is detrimental until such time, is a gross misunderstanding.

Lastly, we haven't the slightest idea what "our ancestors" ate. Current hunter-gathers have varied diets, so there is no reason to think the same was not the case before agriculture. In fact, it is likely that "our ancestors" had more varied diets.

The Paleo/Neanderthin systems seem fine on their own merits without cooking up "oh it's evolutionary and scientific". Actually, if evolution actually worked the way you think it does, aren't you holding back the gene pool by clinging to what you think is a pre-civilization way of eating? While I have no crystal ball, my prediction is that agriculture isn't going away anytime soon.

Anyone who's ever been to a diary would never touch unpasteurized milk. No E. coli for me, please.

Talk about "unsubstantiated"... That's a silly thing to say; I'd wager the people who work at dairy operations that specialize in unpasteurized dairy have touched it.

Good job using the merchants to blow me down. Maybe I should post a link to Dominos or Dixie Crystals to support the idea that sugar is the perfect food. Of course, that page is about cheese, not drinking milk, so it's not even responsive.

Also, I stated a hypothetical, not an assertion of fact. This distinction is subtle, but significant. Forgive me. I should have said "no rational person who has ever been to a diary". I would never touch the stuff, so I guess that leaves more poop-milk for you.

Mmm.....poop-milk.

Just found your reply.

The more I thought about what I was asking, the less sense my question made. In this country I'm sure the grain-fed cattle must get corn. Therefore no gluten in the milk.

Thank-you - I know it was. If you really want I can post a link to a "Raw dairy" operation that doesn't make cheese from the milk. I don't see how posting a link do Dominos proves that sugar is the perfect food - that's quite a leap, but knock yourself out friendo.



Yes, it would have been better if you'd said it that way, and I do forgive you. Perhaps you should start prefacing your hypotheticals, with "hypothetically speaking," so that your significant subtle distinctions won't be lost on readers like me.

Actually, you're barking up the wrong tree, I don't use raw dairy myself nor would I drink milk even if it was pasteurized; I was merely pointing out that your claim was a spurious.

Whoosh. Even Chuck Yeager stopped to take a look out the window at something that could fly that high.


You would have been a good monarch for Jonathan Swift.


A spurious what?

No, they do feed cattle wheat too. I've run across dairy/feed cattle papers from time to time and they mention wheat or barley, oats are a problem too.

Whoops I just noticed the "a"... yes it should have read "your claim was spurious". Great catch! Nice to see you make sense about something.

This is bad news. But thanks for telling me.

Huh - this has made me wonder if my gluten sensitivity and my dairy sensitivity go hand-in-hand, since both of them make me feel physically the same way (like someone has been beating me with a baseball bat, for starters) - plus the whole autoimmune, inflammatory flare-up. Do you suppose the dairy sensitivity is, in actuality, a sensitivity to gluten that is being absorbed through cow's milk/goat's milk/sheep's milk, since I've found that I've not been able to have dairy products from any of the milk producing animals. They all provoke the same response as gluten. I had always assumed that the gluten and dairy were two separate things even though the physical manifestation was the same. Now I wonder....

Well, not all celiacs have issues with dairy or they tend to be different. So I'm not really sure.

Tanizaki, if you are so against Paleolithic WOE then why are you here? If you want to shoot down our beliefs and give us something to think about, how about giving us some substantial evidence to disprove our beliefs.

Your posts are beginning to annoy me.

So what about just butter? I've seen that some people have troubles with other forms of dairy like milk and cheese, but what about just butter?

I used to take some whey protein powder (low-carb), but it still had some lactose in it... I would always get terrible sinus trouble with it. But with just butter I don't get any sinus problems or phlegm or congestion of any kind.

I do struggle with irritable bowel syndrome, but am hesitant to blame the butter (only dairy product) in my daily diet because for a few years time I was on low-fat Paleo (high fruit, lean meats, etc.) and I still had bad bloating and abdominal distension with just about anything I ate (and for a while there was no dairy involved).

It's hard for me to keep the fat up without dairy butter, and I gravitate towards very high fat, moderate protein. I think its more so just the fat itself rather than it being dairy butter that stimulates my IBS.

Is there still opiates and all that good stuff that dairy-avoiders avoid dairy for in butter? I might consider eliminating it for a week to see how things go, but know that that would be a bit of a struggle b/c I've relied on it as a dense fat source for over a year now on VLC.

Cheese TOTALLY constipates me, so I avoid it like the plague. And I don't touch cream or milk because I suspect the lactose would give me problems as well. So with these problems with the less popular forms of dairy, would it be safe to assume that butter also is a potential villain for me?

Thanks,

I have problems with butter, too. Some people don't - I do. I also have trouble with clarified butter - which some people can have because it doesn't contain dairy solids....it sort of depends on the person.