Rose,

This conclusion was drawn mostly from a research paper by John Meigs based on data from the Baltimore Latitudinal Study of Aging, which is a huge ongoing study where they examined a large population, gave them tests periodically, and continued to add new people as time went on.

They tracked how many people had abnormal glucose tolerance tests and how many of those went on to become diabetic. I have this data online at

The Patterns in Which Diabetes Develops.

Other data I drew on includes the statistics on the number of people in the population who have metabolic syndrome (including IR) and those who are diabetic.

Finally I also draw on the pancreas autopsy study done with Mayo Clinic patients that found that many obese people with mildly impaired blood sugar control had been able to grow new beta cells while those who were diabetic apparently could not, and there was some evidence their beta cells after reproducing, died.

Jenny - thank you so much. That is a fabulous article, probably the most comprehensive explanation of early indications of diabetes that I have ever read. This should be required reading for every family practice doctor and dietician because from my own experience and the experiences of others here, they just don't get it. The evidence is compelling that older people in particular should be carefully screened, using the criteria from this study, to perhaps start treating their condition well before it has escalated to diabetic range.

Hi Sunflr! Actually, I'm in your boat right now.

For the last couple of months I've been noticing signs of PCOS (a pre-diabetic state) returning. About a week or so ago I decided to stop fooling around and to go back to low carb. (It worked years ago.)

My son is a type 1 diabetic. Today I borrowed his monitor to see how far I'd pushed it. 219. I guess I pushed it too far.

And I'm very MAD at myself at the moment! I KNEW I had the genetic makeup for diabetes. I KNEW I'd already dodged the bullet with PCOS 8 years ago. And what did I continue to do? Eat the healthy version of the SAD. Crap, crap, crap. (No. The stupid rice wasn't worth it.)

But the important thing for us to do is to STOP, accept that there is a problem and take control over our lives from this moment forward. There is not one darn thing we can do with the past... accept LEARN from it! Spanking ourselves will do very little to fix the friggin problem.

You're exactly right... and that's what I'm doing. Taking charge of my blood sugar with a low carb WOL! We must persevere!!!

Marcia,

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you ask, "Why you feel that way?"

The reason that I believe that many people stay at pre-diabetic levels for life is the epidemiological large population studies that look at who progresses from impaired to diabetic over long periods of time.

The reason I think that pre-diabetes is still a problem is the many studies linking heart disease to mildly elevated A1cs and post-prandial blood sugar excursions.

Though doctors obsess about cholesterol, it turns out that A1c is a much better predictor of heart attack risk. And at lower blood sugars the post-meal rise in blood sugar is what raises A1c. This is well known.

Hi Jenny, I asked that before you posted the link to the study, before that I thought perhaps you saw something in my numbers to make you think that. Recently I requested my lab results from the last 8 years... I was curious if they had done a FGT before. I knew they had in '06, but I didn't remember any others. I received the info today... here's how they read:

'00 - 95
'02 - 102
'04 - 97
'06 - 99
'08 - 105

I guess what scares me is that I've been LCing for the past 3 months and I can't seem to get my numbers below 90. For those with IR, IGT is there still hope of getting those BG numbers down? Perhaps it takes longer? I still need to lose about 25 lb. so I'm hoping that will help. I wonder what they were before LCing... when I would have a Reuben for lunch with fries??? I was thinking of one day eating like I used to, just to see where my BG would go. Is that a dumb idea? I guess when it went up to 193 with 2 C of white rice that should give me a pretty good idea...

Hi Sunflwer1, From reading this tread it's plain to see you'll do great!

Just want to mention that it may not be the coffee that is raising your before breakfast readings. Are you taking your thyroid after you take your fasting reading? Some drugs can raise your bg for a while and thyroid is one of them. I don't do a before breakfast check for that reason. Breakfast always seems to bring my levels back in line and since I can never stop taking my thryoid or the diuretic that I take at the same time and has the same effect. I try not to worry about it. I just wait my hour, eat and do a 2 hr.pp

There are other drugs with the same effect, so it you're taking any other meds check them out. Dr. Bernstein has a list of them in his book (I've loaned my copy out) but I'm sure someone else here could help you if you want to check up on any other meds. you might be taking.

Welcome aboard!
Glennette

Hi Glennette! Thanks for the welcome and the heads up... I really appreciate the info. That's an excellent idea to just wait for 2 hr.pp. I have Dr. Bernstein's book... I'm going to check it out. I just don't remember that part. Thanks again!

I just checked the book and all mine has are drugs that affect diabetes medications, but I see thyroid products mentioned often. Think I will ask my pharmacist, but you're right about taking the meds.. we don't have a choice!

Now... I've gone a week without coffee! Do I start again???

I actually found out by taking them before my fbg one day and getting upset b/c of the rise. I fooled around with the testing to see if it was something else and it found it was the thyroid & diuretic meds. Then I found them listed in the back of Bernstein's book. I've often thought that may be why so many people with thyroid disorders/diseases end up with t2 diabeties. Can't help but wonder. I don't/can't take diabetic meds so it's not b/c it's interferring with that.

Did your before bb readings get better after eliminating the coffee?

We have the Keurig coffee system which has the little cups of different types/brands of coffee that you put in the machine and it runs the hot water through the little cup to so that you can have a different kind of coffee with every cup. Well I use the same one that my DH has had in the morning so I get a weak version this has never interferred with my readings. I know some people would just not concider that coffee(DH included)..but it keeps my Doc from reading me the riot act about having coffee at all.

You've already got Bernstein's book too??? Wow, that's great! You're definetly going to get this bull down by the horns in no time!

Glennette... sorry I missed this.

Yes, unfortunately for me I do believe it does raise my BS. I've gone nearly 2 weeks without and it hasn't really bothered me. Not even a headache and I would have several cups a day.

Yes, and I have the 2 books by Gretchen Becker too. I really like those as well.

Jenny... or anyone else, What do you think about my FGT history? I'm curious what your opinion is.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think 90 for a fasting is bad at all. IMHO, below 80 and most people start to feel quite crappy. (Some feel hypoglycemic below 85.) Here's the Mayo Clinic's opinion:

"What's normal?
A normal fasting blood sugar result is lower than 100 milligrams of glucose per deciliter of blood (mg/dL)."

And, yeah. The two cups of rice *was* your test! lol!

Marcia, I have to agree with MamaMarie that your fasting numbers look very good. I am in the same ballpark as you, sometimes my FBG is a little under 100 and sometimes a little over. But we have to remember that we have only been LC'ing for a few months (almost 4 for me, so pretty much the same as you) and I am seeing in various threads and articles that it can take some time for the numbers to come down to the level where they STAY there all the time. Readings that fluctuate, I think, are normal at this stage - we should be proud that we can get them down this far at this point, in my opinion! We know that something is working.

Your 2 cups of white rice was your test, mine was the glucose tolerance test - I hit 300 in one hour on that baby.

The folks that have been able to get into near reversal (or, as I like to think of it - remission) have been low carbing for a much longer time, I don't think it can happen overnight, even though we have encouraging results. You are doing well, keep up the good work, we'll beat this together

What is optimal is a different answer from what is acceptable.
I like referencing this study Dr. Eades commented on. Your longevity appears to be tied to your FBG.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...gar-hypothesis/



I wonder if perhaps BG averages (during fasting and non-fasting) might be found to be important someday.

Nancy,

There is already plenty of evidence that people with blood sugars naturally near 83 are unlikely to develop diabetes over time.

However, I can find no evidence that fasting blood sugars higher than that cause damage. Everything points to high post-meal blood sugars as being what causes damage, and it is also very clear that fasting blood sugars rise for all but a small subset of people after post-meal control is shot.

So I think that taking care of high post-meal blood sugars is probably the way to go. For people whose main diabetic problem is insulin resistance, normalizing post-meal numbers will normalize fasting blood sugar.

For many others of us, self included, by the time we get a diagnosis, we have lost some critical amount of beta cells or we have some disruption in the complex hormonal system that seves as the glucose thermostat for fasting blood sugars, so it isn't possible to normalize that fasting blood sugar. I can't, not even with basal/bolus insulin.

So pretty much I think we have do do what we can and not make ourselves crazy about what we can't.

My mom at age 92 still has a fasting bg of 83. But she also has had cancer and dementia. My dad, whose blood sugar was not normal--I think I got my diabetes gene from him--was still sharp enough to be practicing his profession at age 92, thanks to eating a very strict diet.

So that tells me that fasting bg isn't the Holy Grail.

Sorry to hear about your Mom. Your Dad sounds like he's doing well, that's great! In my family it was the other way, Dad had the dementia issues, Mom had other things happening. Dad was obviously Syndrome X, he had every single symptom, including eventually the Alzheimer's. My Mom ended up with memory issues too especially during the last couple years of her life, but in her case it might have been lack of oxygen from COPD and heart issues probably coupled with other things going on. But she was more like severe short-term memory loss versus the way Alz works.

It's hard to compare a study like the ones in the Eades posting with individual cases since there could be a lot more at work in an individual versus watching a trend. Perhaps it *is* precisely because of his strict dietary practices that he is doing so well despite his BG issues which should lend heart to those of us being strict with our diets.