JL, I see that you are under 10% body fat--that's great and not easy at all! Were you working out too? If so, that has to be factored into the equation of overall calories needed or TDEE for you nutritional jargon buffs

Also, I wonder if you were experiencing metabolic adaptations. I'm pushing myself to get to 5% BF, and it ain't freakin' easy, as I feel that my body is fighting against my going this low. Ellis wrote three chapters, two scientific and one anecdotal, about this same thing. I was just wondering . . .

A high-fat, ketogenic diet induces unique metabolic state in mice Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jun;292(6):E1724-39. Epub 2007 Feb 13.

Here's a nice little study done recently in mice. It showed a "unique" metabolic state in ketogenically adapted mice that included enhanced expression of fat metabolism related genes and decreased expression of fat synthesis genes. Mice on the ketogenic diet ate the same amount of calories as control mice, lost as much weight as calorie restricted mice, and were more active than other diet groups.

Mice that were made obese with a high fat and high sugar diet were then put on the ketogenic one and lost the excess bodyweight, improved glucose tolerance, and increased energy expenditure. Analysis of key genes showed similar changes as those seen in lean animals placed directly on the ketogenic diet.

The researcher's conclusion:


Maybe humans differ from mice in this. I'm not familiar with the studies mentioned before that did not show and advantage to low carb diets, so I'm assuming that there is no significant difference between people and mice here.

Thanks for posting the study eshapard, and I agree with the researcher's conclusion; I just wished that I had access to the entire study because it sounds really interesting. As far as using mice is concerned, I've noticed that sometimes folks dismiss animal studies in one breath and then turn around to use them as proof for their point of view.

So, I don't simply dismiss them off the bat because they are not human studies. If anyone has access to the article, you mind sharing cause I'd really like to read it. Thanks . . .

Yes, I was working out. I had been previous to this experiment, so I didn't want to change anything. I was doing about 20-30 minutes of intense cardio about 3 times per week, and lifting weights twice per week. My lifting sessions were only about 20 minutes. I did try to factor in the exercise when figuring my caloric needs.

I have a hard time staying under 10% bodyfat without caloric restrction. Right around 10% seems to be when my body wants to be. (This is only an estimate using variouis online calculators) I once got really low using intermittant fasting and keeping calories very low....around 1500.......but as soon as I returned to my normal very low carb eating, I quickly regained. I can live with around 10%.

I should confess, and add that right now I am at 164, not 160. So maybe I'm closer to about 10%, not the 8.6% that it shows in my info.

Gost, my reply came off quite rude--I wasn't trying to do that, and I apologize. I was poking fun at myself and the situation--that somehow I wasn't explaining my stance well enough, and was going to give up.

I believe you and I agree on more than we disagree.

Bro, there's no need to confess anything. Our body weight fluctuates up to 5lbs on a daily basis because of our fluid levels. So, being 4lbs more than what you have is no biggie IMO. It's not like your 10 or 15lbs over the weight you stated!

Very true. Thanks, I don't feel so bad now.

I'm sorry as well Dane..we obviously do have similar philosophies that we both adhere to..and don't, but it is all good.

I tend to get a little territorial these days, something I have been working on very intensely.

I support anyone who tries to convince everyone to pick up some iron..

We are all in this "brotherhood" together so we need to stick together..disagreements or not.

Thanks again

>grabs tissue.... blots eyes... snuffles out loud...<

How did I know that my beloved Ghoulia would jump all over Danes and my kodak moment??

I'm jumping on a plane young lady to teach you a lesson!!!

Oh goody! Adult contact!

I may be getting beaten with a wet bamboo cane, but at least we can have an intelligent conversation afterwards.

Standing of course.. for me.

Go ahead, fly here. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.

How can I possibly have an adult conversation with someone who triple dog dares me?

I think you may have to increase your fiber intake..maybe an IV drip of metamucil and tumbleweeds.

Well, that bamboo cane might have a bit of fiber - I'll eat that when you're done.

Aww shucks (looking down at the ground while playing in the dirt with big toe . .) LOL!