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  #31   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-07, 09:00
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,899
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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I just made an observation............. 29 replies so far on this thread, 8 of them mine, but the amazing thing is there were 430 views. That is a lot of viewing for so few comments. I would assume that most, if not all, of those views are from fellow diabetics. This could be a great forum if all were participating with new threads and also replying to existing threads on a regular basis. I think no matter how little any of us feel we can contribute, just our active participation at this forum can make a big difference for all of us.

I truly believe that anything said is better than nothing said. Hopefully, we will all get more information, inspiration and motivation here to all do better for ourselves. Good luck to all!
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-07, 10:17
danbrown's Avatar
danbrown danbrown is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 52
 
Plan: Bernstein, formerl Atkins
Stats: 375/237/222 Male 71 inches
BF:BMI 51/33/31
Progress: 90%
Location: Hudson River Valley, NY
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CajunBoy,
You're right. I am close to my initial goal of 250 lbs, down 125 lbs. from 375 or 1/3rd of my body weight. And you're right, my BMI will still be too high. So, I do have a new goal weight which I will change when I achieve the original goal.

My new goal will be to lose another 63lbs.to get to 187lbs, or half my original weight and right on the recommended weight for a person of my height and gender. I will get there in two steps. Step 1: 28 lbs to 222. Step 2, another 35 lbs to 187. Thanks for asking.

Note on Atkins I lost 1 1/2 lbs a week, on average. On Bernstein, I am losing 2 lbs per week, average. To do this I have to change my target macro nutritional values every few months.

Following Dr. Bernstein's prescription in his "Diabetes" Diet book, to lose weight I have reduced the Protein grams I eat each day. Using 4 grams of protein per pound of body weight as a starting point to amintain weight (a parameter I found elsewhere), I reduced that slowly to 3 grams, to lose weight.

When I was 300 lbs, 4 grams was equivalent to 120 grams, so my Protein target became 90. Now that I weigh less, I've reduced the Protein target to 80grams/day. Soon, I will have to lower it again.

The carb grams remain constant. The fat seems to come down with the Protein, but if it doesn't (and I get too many calories), I make different food choices to monitor the calories too
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-07, 10:44
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,899
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Posted by Danbrown:

Quote:
Following Dr. Bernstein's prescription in his "Diabetes" Diet book, to lose weight I have reduced the Protein grams I eat each day. Using 4 grams of protein per pound of body weight as a starting point to amintain weight (a parameter I found elsewhere), I reduced that slowly to 3 grams, to lose weight.


I've been trying to get a grip on how to move onto my 2nd stage of weight loss. I never read Bernstein, but I think what you just offered up is the answer I have been searching for to begin my next stage. I dropped to 180 about 2 months ago and haven't gained or lost since. I have been racking my brains out on how to adjust without starving myself so I can lose my next 25 pounds. Readjusting my thinking has not been easy, but your formula is a great idea that might just do it for me. I'll let you know in a couple of weeks... Thanks!

So, if I understand your formula, my current weight 180 X .4 X .75 would equal adjusting my proteins to 54g per day.........Does this seem accurate to you?

Last edited by Cajunboy47 : Tue, Jun-19-07 at 10:52. Reason: math error
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  #34   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-07, 18:43
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
Wow, thanks for these posts I've been reading... I would like to comment to each that posted since my last post.....

Daryl: If your stats are current, you are very close to goal weight, so congratulations. I am surprised you are still having to take Januivia. I would like to ask you: How long have you been diabetic? How many carbs do you average daily?



Cajunboy, the stats are indeed current, I weigh every Monday and update them ; thanks for the congrats, it's appreciated.

I may not need the Januvia; I have a hunch much of my BG control is from my diet; imagine how much more effective it might be if I added back exercise (which I stopped a couple of months ago, due to back problems). My BG is constantly in the upper 70s and 80s, and is frequently there even just a couple of hours after eating. I go for my blood work the first part of July, and I'll talk to the doc about giving it a go without meds then. Let's keep our fingers crossed.....


I haven't been diabetic for that long; I had a FBG of 102 in June of 2004, and 339 in December of 2006, so I crossed the line sometime in there.

My carbs NEVER go above 30, and are frequently around 20. The only time I indulged at all, since January, was last Saturday, I had half a cornbread muffin . My BG was 117 at 1 hour after eating, 101 at 2 hours, 95 at 3 hours, and hasn't went above 84 since then.
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  #35   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 06:39
dancinbr's Avatar
dancinbr dancinbr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 811
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein (modified )
Stats: 298/205/199 Male 5 foot 11 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Smithtown, NY
Smile

OK now.

Daryl - I have been thinking of establishing a baseline on my blood sugars as Cajunboy has suggested/implied a couple of times.

Right now, I don't know what components of my daily habits now contribute to good blood sugar controls. I am not down to 80's or 90's yet. I get occasional 80 and 90's reading. Most are in the 100-110 range. Sometimes, I go off the wagon and have a treat and spike, but it comes back down. This is not good though.

My a1c was 5.6 and I want it lower.

So what I am going to do over the next month is try a few things.

I am going to stop all meds and see where the blood sugars go over the next week or so. If they start to creep up too quickly I will reintroduce Metformin ER. Quite frankly, I don't think Januvia is doing much if anything for me. I chart my blood sugars and I take 4 measures a day. So I can see what happened when. I do know diet is a major factor as we all know.

Today and for the next several days/weeks I am going to stay as close as possible to Dr. B's 6-12-12 formula and maybe an additional 12 for 6-12-12-12. I am going to NOT eat in between. Lets see what happens.

I will discuss with my Doctor as well. He is very supportive and says the same for me. Do what you got to do. Whatever it is you are doing is fine.

Got to get exercise going again. We did get a fair amount on vacation, but I am not getting enough lately. Dog walk time again.

Ralph
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  #36   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 08:07
danbrown's Avatar
danbrown danbrown is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 52
 
Plan: Bernstein, formerl Atkins
Stats: 375/237/222 Male 71 inches
BF:BMI 51/33/31
Progress: 90%
Location: Hudson River Valley, NY
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CajunBoy,
Your calculation is correct.

I want to emphasize that the .75 factor is my own, extrapolated from many sources with none providing definitive guidance.

The 4 grams of protein for each pound of body weight is more commonly accepted for maintaining weight, for sedentary males. (Active exercisers would need more.) But again, this is not a Bernstein number.

I lowered that to 3 grams (slowly) out of concern that I eat enough protein to provide the amino acids for brain and muscle funcion, etc., knowing that any "excess" amino acids would reconstitute themsleves as glucose to quick energy which would derail the fat burning machine I am trying to run my metabolism on.

In his "Diabetes Diet" (not the recently revised and republished "Diabetes Solution" book), Dr. Bernstein emphasizes, to lose weight, keeping the carbs the same (6-12-12) and lowering protein by reducing the portion for one meal by half and seeing how that works. If it is not enough, he suggest reducing the protein of another meal by half, and so on.

He mentions reducing the protein to lose weight 3 or 4 times in the book, each time emphasizing that the amount of protein (and carbs) with each meal should remain constant from day to day. I surmise this is both for blood sugar regulation and fat burning metabolism.

Good luck. I look forward to hearing how it is working for you.
Dan
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  #37   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 10:18
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,899
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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DancinBr:

With numbers between 80 and 110 while taking meds and checking your BG levels 4 times each day, if doing "0" carbs for a few days doesn't allow the stopping of medications, then we're all doomed. You sound like the perfect candidate to do this experiment. Keep testing often while experimenting and let us know your results.

Testing carb tolerance is only to see what I currently can tolerate. As I lost weight, my tolerance was greater. Tolerance in the beginning, without meds was 20g or less of carbs, but after losing half of my weight loss goal, my tolerance more than doubled. According to what I've researched and read, as a diabetic, I should never consume more than 60-75g of carbs per day. Even if I get to my goal weight and find I can tolerate 100 carbs or more per day and can still stay in BG tolerance without meds, I should be aware there are processes in my body at work that is going to flip on me sooner or later and set me in the wrong direction again. Keeping carbs low is something I must accept and live with and that my true goal is only to extend the quality of my life.

Finding carb tolerance early into weight loss establishes a base line so to speak, a platform from which to measure future improvements.
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 10:33
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,899
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Danbrown:

You definitely got me thinking of figuring out what I need to be eating to start my weight loss up again. Before reading your last post, I have come up with this:

Goal Weight = 155 x 10 + 360 = 1860 calories

Goal: 10% carbs.... 15% protein..... 75% fat......
(I added more protein because I consider myself slightly above sedentary)

Food Spread of Daily Calories:
Breakfast: 40%........... Lunch: 35%........ Dinner: 25%.....

I used the above to determine grams of fat, protein and carbs to be consumed at each meal. I figured out I was eating closer to 2200 carbs a day, now I plan on reducing to this new plan of about 1860 per day... Hopefully my weight stagnation should end...
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  #39   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 18:27
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinbr
OK now.


My a1c was 5.6 and I want it lower.

So what I am going to do over the next month is try a few things.

I am going to stop all meds and see where the blood sugars go over the next week or so. If they start to creep up too quickly I will reintroduce Metformin ER. Quite frankly, I don't think Januvia is doing much if anything for me. I chart my blood sugars and I take 4 measures a day. So I can see what happened when. I do know diet is a major factor as we all know.

Today and for the next several days/weeks I am going to stay as close as possible to Dr. B's 6-12-12 formula and maybe an additional 12 for 6-12-12-12. I am going to NOT eat in between. Lets see what happens.



Ralph


Ralph, I agree totall on the A1c, I will not rest unless mine is under 5.

I know you can do it; heck, I have a great deal of belief in all of us here. I mean that.
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 19:49
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
I am going to stay as close as possible to Dr. B's 6-12-12 formula and maybe an additional 12 for 6-12-12-12. I am going to NOT eat in between. Lets see what happens.


I think that's do-able. Just remember to space those meals 5 hours apart, so using myself as an example, I could have breakfast at 6 am, lunch between 11 am and 12 pm, an early dinner at 5 pm and a snack at 10 pm.
Of course, my meals are never timed that well (meetings, kids and life in general often prevent that) but in an ideal world....maybe after I retire and the kids move out....
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  #41   ^
Old Wed, Jun-20-07, 21:59
danbrown's Avatar
danbrown danbrown is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 52
 
Plan: Bernstein, formerl Atkins
Stats: 375/237/222 Male 71 inches
BF:BMI 51/33/31
Progress: 90%
Location: Hudson River Valley, NY
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Cajunboy,
My distribution of macronutrients is as follows:
9% CHO, 26% PRO (sedentary), 65% FAT
My carbs are distributed as follows:
4-6-10 = 20 grams net (30 total)
Mr protein is distrubuted as follows:
20-25-35 = 80 grams
My macro calories are CHO = 120 (30x4); PRO = 320 (80x4); FAT = 810 (90x9); Total calories = 1,250
Of course, these are just targets, but I strive to be there every day.
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Jun-21-07, 00:53
AuntJoyce's Avatar
AuntJoyce AuntJoyce is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 202
 
Plan: Protein Power /Bernstein
Stats: 250/225/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 25%
Location: Washington State
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I was diagnosed about 10 years ago with a 9.5 A1C. Had tingling in the legs, fuzzy eyesight, frequent urination and blood sugar swings.

was put on glyburide at first and got off that by dieting. Went back to old habits and then was put on metformin. That did not agree with me (had to stick close to the bathroom) nor did it really help when my eating was out of control.

Got more serious in 2002 with low carb when Atkins was getting popular. Lowered my blood sugar to around 120 most of the time. Then went up and down for a few years.

Last year, I just resigned myself that diet and exercise was the only thing that could help me. I no longer have any of the symptoms above. I just have a little loss of sensation in my left leg and not much hair on my shins.

Like Dan, I'm a big fan of Dr. Bernstein.

1. Keep carbs under 30
2. Eat less food -- I used Protein Power to calculate my protein amount
3. Do not snack -- eat 3 meals or less.
4. Skip a meal or two from time to time.
5. Strenuous exercise -- I do weight training and hiking as per Dr. B.
6. Supplements -- I have no idea if these help at all. I take fish oil, Insulow, EPO and some others anyway.

I can keep my blood sugar under about 95 without losing much weight. I have gotten down to 83 a few times after fasting and an hour or more of exercise the previous day. I still struggle with eating bad foods sometimes. I'm a food addict big time. My problem is more emotional rather than physical cravings. I've even thought of mugging someone to take their food or of breaking into the neighbor's house to ransack their kitchen.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Jun-21-07, 06:46
danbrown's Avatar
danbrown danbrown is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 52
 
Plan: Bernstein, formerl Atkins
Stats: 375/237/222 Male 71 inches
BF:BMI 51/33/31
Progress: 90%
Location: Hudson River Valley, NY
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CajunBoy,
What is that formula for converting weight to calories? Is that goal weight x 10 plus 360? Is that a universal 360? Whose formula is that?

I read a few months back in some scientific abstract linked to these boards that the average American male eats 16% protein (female 15%), so your target is at normal. I would think you would want it to be higher.

Of course the Standard American Diet (SAD), as reflected in the Nutrition Facts on food labels, is based on 60% of the diet being consumed in carbs. That's 1,200 of the 2,000 calories.

Your 10%-15%-75% percentages break down to 46 carbs, 70 grams of protein and 155 grams of fat per day in the 1,860 calories. Is that what you want your intake to be?

I think it's admirable that you have frontloaded your meals, with the heaviest load at breakfast. I still have a problem with limiting dinner. It is the only meal that varies a lot and the only one that I share with my wife, who prepares it and on whom I am dependent. She works very hard to help me keep the carbs down, but it is hard for her to vary the meals and not get bored, and I frequently eat too much protein (and associated fat, thus calories) at dinner.

Last night I had 6 Swedish meatballs (1/2 lb. uncooked), plus a cup of green beans with butter. It was twice as many meatballs as I needed to stay on target, but 3 meatballs (1/4 lb.) just seemed like too little to her (and me).

My next challenge is to find more main dishes for dinner, to keep the meals interesting and the preparer interested. I may have to prepare a few myself!

Last edited by danbrown : Thu, Jun-21-07 at 07:00.
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Jun-21-07, 08:00
Jo_tB Jo_tB is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 38
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 156/150/140 Female 170 cm
BF:
Progress:
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Hi everyone,
I'm a type 2 from across the pond. I live in Amsterdam. I was diagnosed in 2001 and first was put on Tolbutamide. Steadily increased the dose until maximum. When that didn't help I got switched to Glibenclamide and that went up to the maximum dose (2 tablets of 5 mg each). My glucose levels just wouldn't drop like they were supposed to. As I have had weight problems since I was 18 (am 64 now) I decided to go low carb (my version of Atkins) about 2 years ago. Because I was very frustrated that my A1C was taking too long to come down, I purchased a meter and started measuring 4 time a day. After a while I noticed that when I ate dairy products my readings would stay a bit higher (1 to 2 points European measurement). That was when I realised that I had become lactose intolerant. I used to drink a litre of milk a day and over a kilo of cheese a week, not to mention greek yoghurt (the very heavy stuff). So after I cut out all dairy products my glucose levels really dropped and I had to cut back my medication dramatically.

Last year on holidays in India I had to stop taking my medication (1/2 tablet glybenclamide) as I was getting hypo's in the middle of the night. After the holidays my glucose stayed steady on the highish side and I thought I was doing just fine. But my A1C had crept up again, which was nog good so my doctor advised me to take my 1/2 tablet glybenclamide again. Drat that!! However, at the same time I thought what I should do is give my pancreas a rest by not snacking between meals. So now I only eat 3 low carb meals a day and I have noticed an improvement on my glucose levels. In April when I had another A1C done, it had dropped again to 6.9 from 7.2. I'm hoping to see a further improvement when my next A1c is due in August.

So in conclusion, the low carb diet is working for me. Dr Jay Wortman put it very nicely: what is the first thing you do when the bathtub is overflowing? You turn off the tap!! (When you body is overflowing with glucose you turn off the carbohydrate tap).

Regards,
Jo
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Jun-21-07, 08:09
dancinbr's Avatar
dancinbr dancinbr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 811
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein (modified )
Stats: 298/205/199 Male 5 foot 11 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Smithtown, NY
Thumbs up

OK, we are off an running.

I tested my sugars about 10 times yesterday just to see what happens.

I did quite well.

I have read the Dr. B book. I have the new one. Time to go back and read it again.

I remember a few facts. For example, 1 gram of carbs will raise blood sugars by 5. Sure enough. My breakfast was eggs. I used half and half for coffee; should use heavy cream. But my day went well. I had a slice of lite bread for lunch as I made a sandwich. My carbs were like 6 - 14 - 15 for the day. Sure enough when I had 15 the blood sugars jumped up 75-80 points. One hour later they were coming down and 2 hours later they were down into 110-115 range, which is what I am averaging right now.

So, first day no meds went fine. Of course, there may be residual with Januvia. We will see. Again, I don't think it does much for me anyway. I was using Metformin ER so by now that should be out of my system too.

Here are my stats:

OH the night before I intentionally loaded up on carbs so I would start off high the next day; just to force the situation.

6:35 AM before meals 137
9:34 AM after breakfast 4gms carbs 122
11:30 AM no meds 119
12:34 before lunch 113
14:34 one hour plus after lunch 14gms carbs 139
15:29 late afternoon 109
16:44 later 103
18:11 before dinner 110
19:34 precisely one hour after dinner 15 gms 188
20:43 two hours after dinner 133
23:29 before bed 111

Next morning

7:51 dawn effect before breakfast 121

Now, these numbers would probably produce an A1c of about 5.4 - 5.6 according to what I read in Dr. B's book. So we will see.

I am going back to measuring 4 times a day:

before breakfast
before lunch
before dinner
bedtime

I am also going to do my best to space out the meals according to Dr. B's advice 5 hours. Sometimes, it is only 4; alas we try

Ralph
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