I have always been concerned about what happens to dairy once it gets inside a person. I mean, try leaving a glass of milk in a warm, dark environs (mixed in with other foods) for a little while and see what happens. Sludge.

Proteus, adding fuel to the fire, eh?
Once I made Russian cold soup okroshka (kefir with meat& veggies) and put into lidded bowl, then forgot about it, after a few days it reminded of itself by doing “Big Bang” in the kitchen.
Had to be cleaning it for a few hours, then was struggling to air the room off rotten-n-sour stink and so developed even more dislike for dairy

*now make okroshka with diluted mayo or with kvass (for family).

Cordain in one of his newsletters wrote the article on betacellulin in cow’s milk and its adverse effects. Though I didn’t like the title “Another reason not to drink milk”, which is sort of mainstream way of putting things, I did like however the content, which once more substantiated my view on milk as incompatible with human diet, chosen solely for the sake of opium effects.

In short, it tells that hormone betacellulin, found in large concentrations in cow’s milk, attaches to and stimulates the intestinal epidermal growth factor (EGF) receptor in the gut, I believe his view point is quite in the line with evolutionary model: as far as EGF receptor, which is normally activated by EGF from saliva, promotes gut healing and sustainability, so apparently wise Mother Nature didn’t want its effects to be interfered with outer betacellulin megadoses, so developed lactose intolerance to achieve this purpose.

Taking another addictive swig of my goat yog berry smoothie .
Eos that's ridiculous, whole milk protein is even more balanced by fat. If drinking milk was even likely to cause 'hyperammonemia' infants of all mammals would hardly thrive on it exclusively would they? The only thing that changes with adulthood is the ability to produce lactase - until in the human species, evolution was clever enough to provide a solution.

Casein intolerance is so much rarer because pre - modern food processing technology, any mammal that had it was likely to die in infancy anyway. And if you develop casein intolerance in adulthood, the symptoms are obvious. So just avoid dairy. No one's making anyone eat it if you have a casein sensitivity. Most people of either European of African descent don't have either casein or lactose intolerance, and IMHO have no reason not to include low carb dairy in an optimally healthy diet.

Hybrid, actually we all drink the 'secretions of live animals' (usually called 'Mum'), exclusively, for the first couple of years of our lives. And then we used to lose the ability to produce lactase. Evolution enabled the vast majority of humans (of either European or African descent) to go on producing lactase in adulthood.

I'm sorry Hybrid, but drinking milk spans not just the paleolithic. You're just going to have to get your head around it.

Or is any technological practice (milking animals is but one, selectively breeding all fruits and vegetables for either sugar or palatability is another, but there are many others) which did not occur during the paleolithic make it off limits to the politically correct Paleo? Which would place practically every foodstuff you eat way out of bounds. Except hunted wild animals. A bit limiting, wouldn't you agree Hybrid?

Of course even the (Ie. Asian descent) humans who cannot drink lactose containing dairy in adulthood can go on consuming cheese and well fermented dairy with the same health benefits as they enjoyed while consuming whole milk as infants.

So Hybrid, I'm afraid my point stands, and belongs in any 'Paleo' forum that is not bound by the suffocating PC strictures you seem to be alluding to. I think I'll leave it to the moderators to decide if I'm breaking any rules. Last time I read them, there was nothing about being required to pander to narrowmindedness .

KB, you're ignoring the EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor)..and Betacellulin's impact on abnormal cellular growth, promoting cancer. Much the less that this is being allowed to be researched at Harvard (mainly because it has pharma $profit$ potential).

I've poured gasoline on fires before. Is that what you mean?

Wow, you know what? I'm enjoying looking all this stuff up, but the massive disdain this thread is showing for my curiosity is really off-putting. So I'll take the VERY DIRECT HINT to discuss it elsewhere.

I've been hearing about cheese slowing people down as long as I've been on this board..But I'm wondering why. The only reason I can think of is that it may constipate people and the stall is really backed up plumbing, if you will

If you feel you must. But you should know that this sort of thing has went on before and taking it personally is, well, tragic.

This is, however, a paleo/neanderthin forum group, and attempts to pass non-paleo ideas as such probably isn't going to be "stomached" very well. It'd be like us going to a low-fat forum and trying to convince folks that ribs and pork belly, while not low-fat, should be considered low-fat anyway.

I too, have enjoyed the discussion, but mostly as a lurker.

Proteus, perhaps you're also forgetting what happens to that other wonderful superfood, meat, if you leave it in a warm dark environment.... .

Thanks, ProteusOne. I don't think it's really a personal thing so much.


Of course. I would like to point out, I haven't made any value judgements about paleo in my posts here. I just had a little offshoot line of questioning about the topic at hand, and whether maybe all foods are drugs. That is arguably not relevant to paleo, so it can go live on elsewhere.


I have moved my part of it to the War Zone, here. I thought I'd drop off the link in case anyone wanted to stop in and put in their points, which I would be quite happy to read.

There's a lot of different casein proteins, as far as I know, human casein is different from cow casein.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/do....1997.tb00993.x
http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtcowmilktypes.htm

So far I see a-casein, a1 and a2, k-casein, and b-casein.

Dairy cows have lots of a2 I think.

I agree, and I think the tangent discussions around a topic are what makes for good reading and discussion. Food just causes such emotion! It's almost like driving in your car and someone cuts you off. Except in this case, one's beliefs about food is the car, and someone suggesting your wrong in your belief is the a**hole who cuts you off. It's so tempting to go into diet-forum rage... I never really understood how such a personal, simple choice could cause so much angst in someone. And I can call myself "Paleo," but I'm really nowhere near it, I'm just approximating as best I can, or am willing to, my idea of what it is.

So, I'll continue to have a little half & half, and maybe a little cheese now and then. But it is in no way what I consider to be part of the paleolithic range of foods -- it's "outside of the box," so-to-speak and not part of my ideal. And I'm happy with that.