Geez, Piet you got a lot of time on your hands.

Eat just brown rice for two weeks? Is that what you are suggesting? I just can't believe that this is what we are meant to do. Food is supposed to be enjoyable, diverse, not a punishment. This sounds depressingly wrong.

I just have to do a little post here. In my youth in my commune we ate a lot of brown rice, many times that is all we ate because we were so poor, and we were absolutely not healthy. The more we ate brown rice without additional nutrients the less healthy we felt.

We had skin problems, teeth problems, problems with loss hair, lack of energy, it was horrible (and this wasn't from anything else, we just weren't getting what our bodies needed from our diet). Only when we added protein and nutrients did we feel better.

It is unwise to suggest eating only brown rice for two weeks---although you may be very healthy and be able to do it; it could be dangerous to someone else.......as basically you are semi-fasting with a little bit of food.....

As a personal note, I feel better now than at any time in my life when I was a vegan, a vegetarian, a major faster (I ate one meal every other day for a year at one point in my life) and a sugar and carb overeater---so for me the proof that this way of life is good is my own journey, and for me it is a positive one.....

I was going to give piet the benefit of the doubt - but then his misplaced smug self assurance poked its way through "the long paragraphs"....

I'll give you a few basic facts regarding MYSELF. I cannot overeat fats. I can overeat carbs (and have). Overeating fats did not make me overweight. Overeating carbs did.

Having eliminated HFCS, and other starchy, refined grains and fruits, I have completely alleviated the joint pain I was suffering from. Before I even lost a single pound.

But one thing you have not answered, is "why are you here?"

Do you think you can change someones mind?

Do you think we can change your mind?

If neither of the above, then why are you spending so much of your time here writing enormously long posts, responding to other posts...? All of your "points" have been addressed probably a couple hundred times previously on this forum - if you were truly interested, you could do a search and find out what the responses were.... you have added NOTHING new.

So perhaps some introspection is in order now - ask yourself what ou are getting out of this juvenile display.... and perhaps you could consider therapy instead...

Validity based on YOUR first impression?- oh please.
I agree that brown rice is very nutritious and as part of a healthy way of eating, would be extremely healthful. Keep in mind that eating LC does not banish all carby foods, just in the beginning- to lose weight. And later, it allows good carbs in, just in moderate amounts. If anyone ate 6 bowlfuls of brown rice a day, they would be fat!

Asians, whose diet used to mainly consist of rice and veggies, used to be thin. It isnt because of meat that they are gaining weight. It's overconsumption, fried foods, fast foods- and these foods mostly consist of processed carbs. My mother is asian, we grew up eating rice, veggies, with little meat. As an "american" diet was incorporated, my whole family has gained weight. I'm actually the thinnest one at this point. Again, not because of meat, but because ALONG with the brown rice, we were eating fast food, processed foods, and convenience foods- mostly carbs!

If you want an argument, go to a fast food diet forum or join PETA or something, there is nothing wrong with this WOE. Are you that desperate for debate that you must come here and put people down? Join the debate club!!!

[QUOTE=Piet] As to why I should spend time posting here, a good point as I doubt I stand a chance of converting anyone, but I do love a good argument. The clash of ideas is meat and drink to me!
I think the underlying problem is taste. Foods are made so tasty that people get addicted to the sensations, they want more, it is, as the saying goes, very morish. That's why manufacturers add refined sugars, salt, MSG and other flavours to their processed food, they want people to keep coming QUOTE]

I wondered if you were going to respond. I love a good argument as well. On this board I've seen a few that changed my thinking because of their logic and adherence to science. A troll makes sniggering comments and hides. An intelligent person doesn't mind engaging in argument. The unintelligent make rude comments rather than argue.

I think sugar can be addictive for some. The Somogi effect forces people to eat more and more. Recovering addicts can be the worst because of their zeal. Think of what happens if someone lights a cigarette in a restaurant. Your anti-carb theme has caused similar responses from recovering carbaholics.

If some can be addicted to sugar, it's possible for some to be addicted to meat. Witness the vitriol that your mention of animals generated. I was involved with meat processing for a time. Sentient animals driven to the slaughterhouse is something I can't forget.

the definition of "troll" would be someone who intentionally walks into a group of people whose common goal is different than his or her own, specifically making comments that the group's ideaology is incorrect, and making those statements with the full intention of arguing A vs. B. had you come in with questions, had you listened to us and taken the time to understand who we are and why we're here, then no, you wouldn't be considered a troll.

but i think you hit the hammer on the thumb when you said "can hang out with the like minded". if we didn't have common ideas in order to reach common goals, we wouldn't be here.


maybe you should go look at my open letter to alton brown. just because the majority of the world's population relies on carbohydrates, since they are easily obtainable sources of food, that does not automatically mean that carbohydrates are the best source of fuel for the human body. if so, we would have evolved differently.


so yelling at us that "[we] ALL EAT TOO MUCH" wasn't meant as a put down?


your statement is a typical, already debunked argument used by hard-core vegetarians and vegans. it's an agricultural fact that raising crops to feed animals is far more beneficial to the earth than using those same crops to feed humans.


nobody said you had to eat meat. nobody here is telling you what to do, or how to live your life. which brings me back to my definition of why you're a troll here. this is why we're confused as to why you'd come to a low-carb board with the intent of telling us we shouldn't eat meat, that we should all be eating carbs when we've all come to the realization that carbohydrates are bad for our individual bodies. we can't tolerate them. just because you can doesn't make you some kind of messianic voice of reason.


and we come here for the exchange of information to determine what works for our bodies, to diagnose what's not working, to congratulate each other's successes and commiserate with our frustrations. this is forum.lowcarber.org, NOT debate.lowcarbing.org.


spoken by someone who has absolutely no understanding of addiction of any kind. personally, i don't have any experience with carbohydrate addiction... i actually have no experience with addiction of any kind. my body just doesn't do it. i smoke, but i give it up easily. i can eat carbs without it triggering my body to demand more. but just because i've never experienced it doesn't mean i can't acknowledge that people on this board DO experience sugar addictions, and that your suggestion of eating nothing but brown rice is the equivalent of telling someone who's trying to quit smoking to switch to cigars instead.

Who asked you to stay here? Just another troll with nothing better to do apparently.....

Doubtful, but you must be one of those who also enjoys banging your head against the wall!

I'd rather have a pig's hind end thanks!

I once knew a woman who had to give up reading the comics in the newspaper because she was "addicted" and would let other things go just to read a comic strip. I've known of people being addicted to television--even (gasp) to computers/internet. Just because you don't understand an addiction doesn't mean it isn't real.

For some of us, carbs trigger cravings for more. I'm not talking about the good carbs that most of us do eat--green veggies (which BTW I eat more of on Atkins than I ever did before). I'm talking about refined sugars and bleached--no nutrients remaining--white flour. See, the misconception many people have is that Atkins and other LC programs are anti-carb. That's wrong--it's just choosing the right kinds of carbs and finding the right balance for each individual's body. During weightloss, carbs are kept low (hence the name LOW carb--not NO carb).

So explain to me how a diet that contains protein, natural fats that our ancestors have eaten for years (think real butter, avacados), good nutritious veggies, whole grains, no refined sugar and no bleached flour is unhealthy?

Maybe anything in excess is unhealthy. If a vegetarian can be fat, too much protein, good fats, veggies, grains and butter can be unhealthy.

Good point--but like a lot of others I find I eat smaller portions and do less between meal snacking while on a LC plan than at any other time in my life. So, I'll rephrase my question to include the words balanced and appropriate portions of. . .

Well one thing that pokes through Piet's arguments is her adherence to vegetarianism for ethical reasons. So her glasses are tinted for reasons other than nutritional ones. That is religion of a kind. Any facts she cites, any viewpoint she has, is rooted to some extent in those ethics. I don't begrudge her those ethics, but I don't share in them. Animals die so that we may live. Even vegetarians kill animals (indirectly) to survive.

That aside, the actual nutritional arguments one can make vs. meat are pretty difficult to sustain. Certainly it is easier to make arguments against refined carbs, bleached flour, hfcs, sugar and other simple carbs than it is against a ribeye steak. That, of course, is from a strictly nutritional viewpoint.

Piet, despite what she says, if you read between the lines, is where Piet's attack is rooted. She is rude, not a skiled writer, and protests being called names after flinging mud to start things. But notice that she does not tend to respond to factual posts. That tells you a lot about her and her religion.

Holy Cow .. errr.. so to speak

( haha.. how appropriate for a religious meat bashing post eh? )

I dont think I've ever read such a lot of claptrap in all my days.

I will tell you from personal experience that carbs are THE most addictive things I've ever had the misfortune to place in my mouth. I would kill to have been raised as a strict LC'er and NEVER had to deal with the agonizing cravings that rip through me once I get started on a carb binge.

I can leave alcohol alone for years on end, I'm not remotely interested in smoking cigarettes, altho I have tried them earlier in my life - no instant addiction. I have smoked a lil herb every now and then, totally enjoy it but can leave it alone, also for years on end. I love the feeling that pain killers give me and can easily see the attraction there for junkies..

But.. the point to all this.. AM I a junkie to any of that ? Do I have any problem whatsoever in not indulging ? Do I have any problem whatsoever in exercising will power and control over these highly addictive substances? Am I a person who has no self control ? Nope, not even a little bit.

Carbs on the other hand, are a daily battle that I have to use every resource and ounce of will power to battle. I thank god daily for Dr Atkins work, this site and others like them.

Piet, I've managed to take off and keep off 55 pounds for 2 years. And believe me, I'd tried every other vegan / high carb based diet there ever was before finding LC and SOMETHING that would allow me to gain some marginal control over the cravings, hunger, wild insulin and mood swings that those high carb diets gave me. Oh.. and the most I EVER lost with those diets... ? 2-3 pounds. Throw in the almost instantaneous joint problems I have from carbage and I'll never resort to any high carb diet ever again.

I will concede that the "super taste" theory of yours is dead on. I hate bland food with a passion. Test prove that some people taste sweet foods much more acutely and that is one reason why we crave them so much.... the sensory gratification they give us. If all we had to choose from was bland boring food, then Im pretty certain there wouldnt be any overweight issues at all. We'd force ourselves to eat what fuel our body demanded then wander on off to find something else to do from sheer boredom!

Soap Box Diatribe ended boys and girls.. you can go back to class now

How does the cocaine experiment fit in with this? Does this mean we should be ingesting cocaine? There was a factual study done where monkeys would forgo all other food for cocaine. Which organ sends that message? And cats drinking antifreeze, which organ is that? Oh, I forgot antifreeze is aspartame. (No, really it is methanol) Of course they say it's not the same..

I think you are confusing addiction and lack of will power. Addiction is a clearly defined chemical body state. If carbs were addictive everyone would be addicts. Most aren't, so one must conclude that some have difficulty restraining their urges. This comes over in a number of posts. I have never spent all day desperately wanting to overindulge any food. I eat when hungry, I eat to live, not live to eat. To call it addiction is to avoid responsibility for your own eating habits, handy if you can get away with it, but don't expect to convince me just by saying so.
I would never visit a MacDonalds, perhaps this is the major problem, you are all casualties of MacMurder. I eat real food that I cook myself from usually organic ingredients.
As for spell checking, you may be an American, in which case you should be aware that not everyone spells English quite the same quaint way you do, I would argue American English is the deranged version. If this isn't the case, the odd typo crops up with virtually everyone [especially if, like me, you have a dodgy keyboard that drops random letters when it feels like it ], and it's a pretty cheap jibe to drop that one in to score a minor point, but if you feel that desperate, go on and point out why I should use a spell checker. As a professioanl editor I spend a good bit of my life correcting others' typos and spelling mistakes, but on boards I think we can all relax a bit can't we?