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  #61   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 12:28
leslieam's Avatar
leslieam leslieam is offline
Living LC 4 Life
Posts: 11,917
 
Plan: Atkins-Maintenance
Stats: 190/133.2/150 Female 5 feet 9 inches
BF:Less Than B4 LC
Progress: 142%
Location: Tennessee
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I hate to admit this (but since we're friends, I'll go for it) but I take *NO* supplements. Never have. I've bought them in the past (One a Day or something like that) but never remembered to take them. I'm thinking the vita nutrient book may be a good one for me to read, as I'd not even know where to begin in getting vitamins....

I'm open to recommendations, BTW. I'm female, 33, and done with having children. Not sure if that matters but figured I'd throw it in there.

Barb -I agree that the induction phase isn't the whole plan, but I must say I was shocked at the 'short' list of induction foods in the '72 version compared to the list in the newer versions. Maybe, however, my memory is failing me and the list of foods is similiar - I'd check but my '02 version is on loan.

I do agree, though, at the end of the day (i.e. OWL and onward) it's the same plan.

Barb, you've also read PPLP which I've heard is an excellent read. But I believe it's a long book, yes?

Leah - welcome! When I was prego with DS#2 and had no idea the gender of the baby (though I knew it was going to be a girl), Leah was one of the names I had picked out for a girl. And Lee - I was going to spell it Leah but I've seen PLENTY of girls spell it the way you do....
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  #62   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 17:11
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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At the Half Price Bookstore today, I scored big for my low-carb library:

--A hardcover copy of the 1972 edition.
--A pb copy of the 1992 edition--a loaner spare.
--PB copy of Atkins Vita Nutrient Solution. Leslie, this might be the one you want.
--Jonny Bowden's Living the Low Carb Life This is an excellent survey of the various popular low-carb plans, and has a lot of good info about supplements. Bowden is an enjoyable and knowledgeable writer.

I am always very happy when I'm surfing through a low-carb book. Go figure.
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  #63   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 17:13
leslieam's Avatar
leslieam leslieam is offline
Living LC 4 Life
Posts: 11,917
 
Plan: Atkins-Maintenance
Stats: 190/133.2/150 Female 5 feet 9 inches
BF:Less Than B4 LC
Progress: 142%
Location: Tennessee
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Barb, you scored! I need to check out our used bookstore locally and see if I can score like you did!
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  #64   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 17:35
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
At the Half Price Bookstore today, I scored big for my low-carb library:

--A hardcover copy of the 1972 edition.
--A pb copy of the 1992 edition--a loaner spare.
--PB copy of Atkins Vita Nutrient Solution. Leslie, this might be the one you want.
--Jonny Bowden's Living the Low Carb Life This is an excellent survey of the various popular low-carb plans, and has a lot of good info about supplements. Bowden is an enjoyable and knowledgeable writer.

I am always very happy when I'm surfing through a low-carb book. Go figure.


Barb!!

You are so knowledgeable about so many aspects of this way of eating that I'm hoping that you can answer this for me.
I read that you don't eat any grains at all? Is this true? and would you mind saying why?

I'm asking this because I watched Dr. Christiane Northrup's special on PBS, The Wisdom of Menopause. In it she says that 1 in 3 women over the age of 50 are gluten intolerant. This confuses me as many grains have gluten and it appears that people with celiacs avoid wheat, barley, rye and oats. The gluten in other grains is not an issue for them.

Do you know anything about this?
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  #65   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 17:46
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Too much attention has been given to the Induction phase, which is so NOT the whole plan. The 1992 edition spells out the four phases very clearly.


So now I need to get the 1992 version?

I got the 1972 version and put it down as it was very confusing for me to read.

I've said this before and will again...there is way too much emphasis on this entire forum of staying on Induction....OWL aka phase II is where we build our food plan to take into maintenance. That is where we try different foods to find out how we react to them...or not!! By the time we get to maintenance or pre-maintenace, most of this needs to be in place.

Years ago before I really got it about my food addictions, I was told to be careful and I did not listen. I was so sure that I could eat a bagel...just one!! But the next day, I had another...just one....next day another.....you get the drift. Before long, my entire plan was gone!!

This time I waited until my plan felt solid beneath me and I was already at goal before I allowed any flour to pass my lips. Its been OK this time as I only allow flour like that once a month...then I'm right back to my food plan. But if I didn't allow that little bit of it once in a while, I know that I'd start to feel deprived and we all know what happens when that feeling comes along!! I'd be binging!!
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  #66   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 21:40
thirteenlb thirteenlb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,227
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/138/135 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Philly
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Judy, the 72 plan does indeed focus on the short- term weight loss aspect of the plan. In fact, in that book he gives virtually no guidelines for which foods to add in or when. He says, and I'm paraphrasing here, to "add back what you miss most." Hello! Can we say donughnuts?

But-- the austerity of the early part of the 72 plan is nearly foolproof, IMO: meat and salad.

92 begins the 4 phases. I think that the atkins forum needs OWL and (pre)maintenance subforums as well. The whole process still remains a bit tough to muck through for me...but I'm doing so slowly and enjoying each minute of it.
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  #67   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 22:50
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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Thanks Lee!!

It looks as though I'm going to get the '92 version as that will make more sense to me.

I agree that the forum does need sub forums for OWL phase vs Induction. This has been brought up before but it did not happen.

I think that if an Atkins person started an OWL thread, asking others to post what they are adding back in and how their experience of it has been, it would encourage others to try adding foods/carbs back in also.

You are doing great and I'm so happy for you that you've found a way to make it all work for you!!
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  #68   ^
Old Sat, Mar-17-07, 23:09
2007's Avatar
2007 2007 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,212
 
Plan: God's Will Be Done
Stats: 306/189/162 Female 5'7
BF:Morris Chestnut
Progress: 81%
Location: $$$ Las Vegas $$$
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I have the 2002 version of DANDR and read it faithfully, because each time I either pickup something new or just to remember something that may have slipped my mind or I'm just referring to it for a basic recipe, and basically just to keep me focus so that I don't stray off the plan as written.

I also have a copy of the 2002 Dr. Atkins' New Carbohydrate Gram Counter which I keep in my purse at ALL times. It has come in handy so many times.


Delight yourself in the Lord and He will grant you the desires of you heart ~Psalms 37:4
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  #69   ^
Old Sun, Mar-18-07, 04:12
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
read that you don't eat any grains at all? Is this true? and would you mind saying why?
I've simply excluded white flour products from my menu--bread, rolls, bagels, pasta, tortillas. I've learned to live without them. I didn't see any reason to go out of my way to try whole grain versions, let alone "low-carb" versions, of these products. It's just simpler for me that way.

I don't "crave" bread (or other flour products.) If we go out to eat, I might choose to eat a piece of bread--but only if it's very special "designer" bread. I treat it like wedding cake--which, to the digestive system, it is: Sugar.

As far as I know, I'm not allergic to gluten, and I haven't really made a study of it. Might be a good thing for you to look into. I read Northrup's book a while ago, and I seem to remember it being complicated. If you're interested, go to the source. Let us know!

Quote:
But if I didn't allow that little bit of it once in a while, I know that I'd start to feel deprived
I think Dr. Atkins would endorse the idea of choosing your carbs wisely, based on what you really want. Whole grains are right there on the carb ladder. But Know Thyself.

Lately--I think it's the spring changeover--I've been wanting sweet. I've been eating more FAT, and using frozen berries with cream to take the edge off the "dessert" hunger. Keeping my food lists up-to-date in Fitday is a good strategy for making sure the Weight Creep isn't letting me lie to myself.
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  #70   ^
Old Sun, Mar-18-07, 08:42
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
As far as I know, I'm not allergic to gluten, and I haven't really made a study of it. Might be a good thing for you to look into. I read Northrup's book a while ago, and I seem to remember it being complicated. If you're interested, go to the source. Let us know!


Thanks!! We think alike as I've already sent a note off to her web site and am hoping for a response.

I too, have givien up white flour for the most part, as I said. I do allow it in a very small and sparing way.

I do notice though that when I want to see the scale move, that I'd better not eat any grain at all!!
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  #71   ^
Old Sun, Mar-18-07, 12:52
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leslieam
I am not sure I agree/like the induction phase of the '72 edition. For example, cream cheese isn't allowed. When I was in the induction phase of my weight loss I lived on mock danishes (still love them, actually). And the veggies are very limited in the '72 edition induction phase, much more so than in the other editions.

I wonder why it changed so much over the years? Additional research? What do you all think it was?


Keep in mind that '72 was written as a follow-up to magazine articles like Vogue and Cosmo and TV spots promoting very fast weight loss. I honestly believe that the very initial book was written primarily as a lose weight fast book. People wanted more info after reading the magazine/seeing the TV spot. It did address the ongoing weight loss and maintenance, but not as formally as in the later books. That's just my take on it.

The '72 induction was also only 1 week long. No, there weren't 4 phases, but there still was the instruction to 5-8 carbs per week until the CCL was found then back off one level etc etc. So even though the phases were not "named" they were still there, loosely. You were supposed to be constructing your lifelong diet as you went along, just like in later versions. The earlier diet was more of a "this is YOUR diet" diet. He kept saying that all through the book. I think the later diets reflect the fact that most people really do need more stringent rules to follow in the absence of direct supervision by ATkins himself. The readers were not patients, they were not being followed on a weekly basis, they were "left to themselves." And we know what can happen when we're left unsupervised....

I think that over the years, things were learned (net carbs, carb ladder, food intolerances, emotional eating issues) and there were pressures to conform to conventional thinking about diets (more veggies on induction, phases of the plan) and demands from consumers (LC products and more variety early on in the diet) that caused changes to be made to the basic diet.
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  #72   ^
Old Sun, Mar-18-07, 13:04
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
I've simply excluded white flour products from my menu--bread, rolls, bagels, pasta, tortillas. I've learned to live without them. I didn't see any reason to go out of my way to try whole grain versions, let alone "low-carb" versions, of these products. It's just simpler for me that way.


I'm coming to the conclusion that wheat products will probably not be part of my diet either (with the exception of occasional Dreamfields pasta, which I tolerated just fine). I don't miss bread as much as I thought I did, really. When I tried it, I didn't really enjoy it as much as I though I would. I don't miss it enough to seek out whole grain versions of it either. That GI distress was enough to cause me to steer clear of it.

I was talking to someone at church this AM about Atkins. She was asking me how long I'd been doing it. I said 6 months. She said Wow that's a long time to be doing Atkins. (Clue #1 that she didn't "get it.") When I mentioned that I tried some wheat and it didn't agree with me, she said that she heard that more people have problems with wheat than people realize and that it was good to know that I couldn't have it if I had issues with it. I mentioned that I had tried some potato and tolerated that just fine. I was hoping to give her an idea that the Induction is the not the lifelong diet for most people. I haven't tried anything else, but I'm in no hurry. I'm experimenting with more fat anyway right now.
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  #73   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-07, 12:42
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
Thanks!! We think alike as I've already sent a note off to her web site and am hoping for a response.

I too, have givien up white flour for the most part, as I said. I do allow it in a very small and sparing way.

I do notice though that when I want to see the scale move, that I'd better not eat any grain at all!!



I got a response and here it is:

Quote:
This varies with different people. Wheat is definitely the worst. Some women can't tolerate ANY grains. Most do fine with quinoa, amaranth, barley, oats, rice, and millet. It's also MUCh better to consume grains in whole form, not flour products. Again, less is more. Keep all servings of grain to a minimum. And huge congratulations on your amazing success!!! I know it has as much to do with your soul and your will as with your food choices!!
Christiane Northrup, M.D.
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  #74   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-07, 13:11
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Oooh. Very impressive to get a quick personal response. I guess even "famous" authors don't hear from the fans that often.
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  #75   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-07, 15:18
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
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I was surprised myself!! But when I thought about it, my question wasn't one of "pity me, I'm a victim and you have the answers" as I'm sure she sees thousands like that.

My question was to get a clarification of a blanket statement that she made and she gave me a good answer.
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