Sun, Jan-14-07, 21:22
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Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
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Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiemcm
No ketones in urine=no ketosis!
The maximum number of daily grams of carbs
to put a person into ketosis varies from person
to person.For me,it's 25.
Eddie
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I think level of ketones in urine is not not linear realtions to carbs but also a factor of water consumed, BGs, efficiency of using ketones, etc. let's say, one is drinking about a gallon of water a day as many advise on ketogenic diet, so the urine will be highly diluted and ketones concentration will drop or barely any will show up. Or if one has been in ketosis for a extended period of time, then body adjusted to use ketones more efficienly and less show up in urine? There is also insulin level, if one is very IR to even dropping carbs to 25g does not assure deep ketosis since basal insulin can still be high. Just thinking about some possible explanations.
I also recall for ketogenic diet used to treat epilepsy, they recommend to reduce water intake to keep ketones concentration high, so water intake can give escew the test results (not?).
EDA: Ok, I have found something that explains it better, and LyleMcDonald does it all (as usual):
Quote:
From a dietary standpoint, to establish and maintain ketosis, two criteria
must be met:
1. Carbohydrate intake must be kept below 30 grams. However, there is some
indivduality in this number. Some individuals can handle more
carbohydrates while others may have difficulty establishing ketosis at this
level. If you can't get into ketosis and everything else is in place, try
cutting your carb intake to 20 grams or less. Also, many individuals choose
to consume as few carbs as possible (zero) until ketosis is fully
established and then increase carbs slightly (celery and cucumber are both
good and add some nice texture to an otherwise bland diet) at that point.
2. The ratio of fat to protein should be 1.5 grams of fat *minimum* for
every gram of protein and carbs in the diet. This is a 75% fat, 25%
protein ratio with trace carbs. So, if you plan to eat 200 grams of
protein, you need to eat at least 300 grams of fat. In most cases, the
easiest way to meet the fat requirements of the diet is to pick your
protein food first (most protein foods have some fat in them) and then
balance the meal out with the proper amount of whole fat food such as
vegetable oil, cream cheese, or mayonnaise and heavy cream (a great dessert
is heavy cream with protein powder and Equal. Mix it up in a bowl and
you've got pudding!)
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and this one just because we are most diabetics here, so here we go:
Quote:
The other key to establishing and maintaining ketosis as rapidly as
possible is that blood glucose (normal is 80-120 mg/dl) must be lowered to
50-60 mg/dl. At this point, insulin levels decrease and glucagon levels
(which are responsible for ketogenesis) rise. Simple carbohydrate
restriction will cause ketosis to occur in three or four days. But proper
training can put you in ketosis within 36-48 hours of stopping carbs. And,
the more time you are in ketosis, the more fat you can lose...
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This actually explains why it is harder to lose fat for T2 and very IR folks.
http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic2.htm
HTH
Last edited by dina1957 : Sun, Jan-14-07 at 21:41.
Reason: additional information
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