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  #31   ^
Old Tue, Mar-28-06, 03:19
Yakumo Yakumo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 143/143/200 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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116/74 is great! Are you sure you have a blood pressure problem? I actually suffer from very low blood pressure, but that's not really a problem (although it can be). What third world country u going to?

Thanks for the reminder about faith. It's my number one problem in this world (I have a lot of problems!). I am bad with faith. I am bad with trust. I don't trust doctors, I don't trust anyone. I don't even always trust my mom. Too many people mean well, and lead you down a terrible path. Too many people just don't know any better. It's an unfortunate predicament I am in that I have not yet found a way out of. I don't even know how it happened and it took a long time, but one morning I woke up and found I was no longer certain Christianity was true, and I hate being uncertain. That's why my health complaints are always only my secondary problem and not that big a deal no matter how rubbish I feel - because, as you say, we are here for the blink of an eye. Other things matter much more.

On the bright side, I'm feeling quite well today after having a string of rubbish days!
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Mar-28-06, 05:27
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
suffer from very low blood pressure


you suffer from it

I guess you can if it's too low, i've never had a problem with my systolic bp being in the 90's
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Mar-28-06, 08:38
santabarb santabarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,433
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 198/179/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakumo
No prob. Yeah, I think the trouble we all had is that we didn't know any better (but maybe we should have? I did some really stupid things...). Santabard: I think Dr. Schwarzbein stresses that getting healthy will not necessarily mean immediate weight loss. In fact,... also, don't neglect the importance of exercise in improving your constitution! but well done, really.

I am full of advice on what NOT to do having done most of it. I've tried like every diet.

...But again, take what I have to say with a healthy pinch of salt...


Yakumo--
Sounds like you've been around the block a few times. Me too. It both humbles you and makes you realize how foolishly one has trusted all these MDs and diet gurus. So grains of salt? the bigger the better in this field...

You're right, that Schwarzbein does not stress weight loss in her medical writing, but her "testimonials," real live case studies in book one do.

As far as exercise, four days a week I get 10,000 steps, the others I get at least 6,000.

I'll buy some organic broccoli next time I'm out shopping.

Thanks for the "well done." No one is more surprised than me, since the scale shows variations, but thus far no actual weight loss progress.
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  #34   ^
Old Tue, Mar-28-06, 08:52
santabarb santabarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,433
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 198/179/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower51
Santabarb, How does schw II differ from paleo? Congrats on your bp...what is sys and dias? T



Schwarzbein is what I would call balanced, with controlled carbs--like the Zone. Each time you eat you balance proteins, carbs and fats as best you can. No focussing on just one food group. Food should be organic. Dairy should be full fat.

Paleo probably contains the same meat and the fats and the very low carbs, but I doubt it says much about 1/3 cup brown rice, or lc grain bread to complement the meal. Schwarzbein agrees that we carry the metablosm of hunters and gatherers, I believe.

Systolic is the number on top, diastolic the number on the bottom. If you go to some national blood pressure sites it give more accurate detail about the differences than I can give here off the top of my head.

It'll be fun to show my doctor my new BP statistics since one month ago she was wanting to get me started on blood pressure meds STAT.

Last edited by santabarb : Tue, Mar-28-06 at 08:53. Reason: spelling error
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  #35   ^
Old Tue, Mar-28-06, 09:32
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Other things, besides diet, affect blood pressure. I just saw this article. http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/hea...cout531754.html

Loneliness Boosts Blood Pressure in Older Adults
03.28.06, 12:00 AM ET

TUESDAY, March 28 (HealthDay News) -- Loneliness has now joined obesity and lack of exercise as a potential risk factor for hypertension.

New research shows that loneliness can add 30 points to a blood pressure reading for adults over the age of 50.

The study's results have surprised everyone involved.

"The take-home message is that feelings of loneliness are a health risk, in that the lonelier you are, the higher your blood pressure. And we know that high blood pressure has all kinds of negative consequences," said lead researcher Louise Hawkley, a research scientist at the Center for Cognitive and Social Neuroscience at the University of Chicago.

Her team published its findings in the April issue of Psychology and Aging.

Hawkley said this study was inspired by previous work, published in 2002, that discovered profound and lingering effects of loneliness on the blood pressure of undergraduate college students.

"We thought that if this was maintained over time, it's setting up their systems to develop vascular issues that could lead to hypertension, including high blood pressure," she said.

So, in this latest study, Hawkley's group interviewed 229 people aged 50 to 68 years of age. They used standard questionnaires to determine each participant's perceived level of loneliness, as well as other psychosocial and cardiovascular risk factors.

The researchers found that lonely older people had blood pressure readings that were as much as 30 points higher than others -- even after other negative emotive states, like sadness, stress or hostility, were taken into account.

A 30-point spread in blood pressure is equal to the difference between a normal diastolic pressure of 120 mm/Hg and stage 1 hypertension, measured at 150 mm/Hg, the researchers pointed out.

What's more, the effect of loneliness in increasing hypertension appeared to get stronger with age, the Chicago team found.

"I was surprised by the magnitude of the effect," said Richard Suzman, associate director of Behavioral and Social Research at the U.S. National Institute on Aging, which helped fund the study.

Hawkley agreed, noting that the effect of loneliness on blood pressure in older individuals is similar to that of physical risk factors long targeted by physicians, such as obesity or sedentary lifestyles.

Hawkley and Suzman were also surprised by the "specificity" of the findings -- that it was loneliness, per se, and not attendant states such as depression or anger, that appeared to be responsible for the boost in blood pressure.

And what about stress?

"Lonely people are stressed, we know that," Hawkley said. However, her team found that stress boosted blood pressure in a way that was distinct from loneliness.

"Its effect was additive," Hawkley noted. "So, that means that people who are lonely have a double whammy -- they are feeling the stress and they are lonely," both of which send blood pressure skyward, she said.

If loneliness can raise blood pressure, then the solution seems easy: strengthen existing relationships and make new ones. But Hawkley -- who has studied loneliness for years -- said it's usually not that simple.

"Remember, people can feel lonely even if they are with a lot of people," she said. "You can think of Marilyn Monroe or Princess Diana -- there was certainly nothing lacking in their social lives, yet they claimed to have felt intensely lonely."

Chronically lonely people also tend to have conflicted emotions when it comes to reaching out to others, Hawkley said.

"They may want to go out and make friends, and yet they have a nagging lack of trust with whomever they want to interact with, or they may feel hostile. So they end up behaving in ways that force the potential partner away," she added.

Targeted interventions that break that cycle might help change things, she said.

Whatever its cause, Hawkley believes loneliness, like obesity and other cardiovascular risk factors, may be on the rise in America. "We have [more] single-parent families, parents living far away from their children, children living far away from each other, and people being transient, not staying put very long," she said.

Suzman stressed the findings need to be replicated before any firm conclusions can be drawn.

However, if the findings do bear out, he believes that "this area is ripe to begin trying out interventions to see how one could change, modulate or reduce the impact of loneliness on blood pressure. If those interventions are low-cost and practical, then it's going to have a significant public health impact."
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  #36   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-06, 04:09
Yakumo Yakumo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 143/143/200 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
you suffer from it

I guess you can if it's too low, i've never had a problem with my systolic bp being in the 90's


By "suffer", I mean I have a hypotension condition. It doesn't affect me in any way at all. I also have systolic in the 90's, sometimes topping 100 depending on how I'm eating etc. I actually think low bp can be healthy as long as it doesn't give you problems. Sure better than high bp!

By the way, is your weight really 118? That seems awfully low. Unless you are talking in kilograms!!

Santabarb: how do you find you feel (energy etc.) on shwarzbein? I haven't been able to follow SP2 diet because I can't really tolerate that many carbs right now. I'd like to though. I am slowly adding more and more, but always low carb carbs (no rice for me!). The book presents a good case though and I think it's a healthy eating plan. More balanced than Atkins by far. Much more like South Beach actually, but not quite the same.

Last edited by Yakumo : Wed, Mar-29-06 at 05:25.
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  #37   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-06, 06:15
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
By "suffer", I mean I have a hypotension condition. It doesn't affect me in any way at all.


Good!

Quote:
By the way, is your weight really 118? That seems awfully low. Unless you are talking in kilograms!!.


No my weight is not 118 anymore, it is around 110lb and I am 5ft 7" - small frame. I dont have an ED, I eat more food than everyone in my house... Just low in calories, See here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...0&page=22&pp=15
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-06, 15:56
santabarb santabarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,433
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 198/179/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakumo

Santabarb: how do you find you feel (energy etc.) on shwarzbein? I haven't been able to follow SP2 diet because I can't really tolerate that many carbs right now.


Energy is outstanding!

I also take the Women to Women Essential Nutrients she recommends. You can check the Women to Women website. It's a library of holistic information from a medical background.

Dodger, thanks for the great research. Makes me think of that Cheraskin quote you have at the bottom. Man is a social animal and can become socially starved. No wonder dogs are recommended the bring HBP down these days. (I don't have a dog).

I don't think in my particular case the socializing patterns have changed in the last 4-6 weeks, but the food I eat and the supplements (see above) have.
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Mar-30-06, 00:29
Yakumo Yakumo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 143/143/200 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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Whoa 182: U don't look that skinny to me to be honest. But I'm used to seeing me in the mirror, and I'm a fairly skinny dude too.
I was once into the whole caloric restriction thing when I read about the Warrior Diet (which, incidentally, gives me AMAZING energy! But I don't feel it's healthy anymore). But unlike you, I went way overboard with the caloric restriction thing and will never do it again. I seriously messed myself up. I also am unsure that there are benefits to chronic caloric restriction. Sometimes, u gotta eat. Personally, I would like to get stronger (I'm such a wuss! Can't do 15 pushups!) and I'll need to pick up weight for that.

I must say though, that I think your food choices and macronutrient ratio are really good and healthy. Much better than mine! Do you find that you have enough energy to get some exercise and stuff? One thing I noticed when I was doing severe calorie restriction is that I progressively had less and less energy. Eventually, to work up a hill was an absolute chore and I had to basically sit on my butt all day. But then I was eating WAY less. We're talking like a couple green peppers a day, or maybe 5 brazil nuts between waking and 6pm or something stupid.

Wow! Had a grapefruit for breakfast (I never, ever eat fruit) and I don't feel too bad! It was higher in carbs than I'm used to and consequently made me a bit dozy, but it sure tasted nice! Fruit rules!

Woah, update 30 minutes later. That grapefruit was WAY too high in carbs. Shutting me down. Man, that was stupid. Seemed like a good idea at the time...

Wow. Now a few hours later and blood sugar has corrected. But here'a an interesting thing: once blood sugar started crashing about two or so hours after eating grapefruit, my vision started blurring more. I am constantly suffering from blurred vision in my right eye which gets worse or better with eating. I was lead to believe that this was due to insulin. Turns out that it's actually then due to either adrenaline or cortisol. So, perhaps if I ate more carbs more consistently (which would negate both of those hormones), my vision would come right...

Last edited by Yakumo : Thu, Mar-30-06 at 03:50.
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  #40   ^
Old Sat, Apr-01-06, 11:27
Yakumo Yakumo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 143/143/200 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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By the way, whoa, hypo-caloric dieting for the purpose of life extension is an interesting idea, but I'm not 100% sure it will necessarily work since too my hypocaloric dieting can have a negative effect on your hormones. If I were you, I would try and make sure of the following through blood tests from time to time, just an idea:

Make sure your SHBG doesn't creep up and your free testosterone get too low as a result.
Make sure your cortisol doesn't creep up. Although it sounds like you are eating well enough that that shouldn't happen.

If free test and cortisol don't do too well, then you know you are undereating too much. Just an idea.
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  #41   ^
Old Sat, Apr-01-06, 13:57
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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  #42   ^
Old Sun, Apr-02-06, 12:05
Yakumo Yakumo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 143/143/200 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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me? Yeah. Lots
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  #43   ^
Old Sun, Apr-02-06, 12:58
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Hi Yakumo, I really don't want to take over this thread talking about CR, I've posted a reply over in the Calorie Restriction Topic in Low-Carb War Zone.

Hope so speak to you there..
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  #44   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-06, 20:13
HisMija's Avatar
HisMija HisMija is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 209/200/150 Female 5ft 3 in
BF:
Progress: 15%
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Hello i'm new to the forum
and i just wanted to put my two cent in. My dr just put me on Lisinopril-HCTZ 10/12.5 mg blood pressure pills day before yesterday and I also asked him about me starting my low carb lifestyle change and he said sounds great to him. I had tried everything garlic, orange juice, potassium,banannas, pilates and yoga and nothing was helping so finally he said that it sounds like my hbp might be hertitary and he put me on meds and supports the Low Carb way of life. So i recommend getting on meds before it damages your kidneys,heart or liver.

Anyways.........Nice to meet everyone.*smiles*
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-06, 13:42
santabarb santabarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,433
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 198/179/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: California
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Hi, Mija--
Welcome. In 6-7 weeks I went from 155/90 to 121/80 (yesterday) without medication. I've held at the lower range for about 4 weeks now since the 7 weeks.

I have now also dropped some weight. But a lot was done differently in between, the biggest being controlled carbs with Schwarzbein, then down to lower carbs (no grains) this past week. One big piece of it for me has to be not using processed foods--sodium hiding in all of them. No sugar. Now no grains.
I agree that if nothing else gets the blood pressure down, you need medication rather than lose kidney function, etc.
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