Scruff,
I too find it my perception that the forum became increasingly inhospitable for me and it takes a lot of effort not to "go against the grain" in order to keep the peace. Sometimes I avoid it or drop it... other times I just don't feel like it and I WILL bark back. I fear this is a skinny thing. We are thin people on a fat group, bottom line. Yes yes we used to be fat, but subconsciously there is always the invisible hiss of shut up skinny, what do you know about it?. Envy, stemming from frustration of those who are still heavy.

I am going to say it's similar to the celebrity phenomena. When you're on a weight loss forum, as a dieting fat person having success losing on your way to goal, everyone else in your situation (fat and hoping to be thin) is cheering you on. After all, you are the inspiration that they can do it too. You feel super accepted and supported because people look at you with admiration and hope for their own dream of thinness. So they build you up, just like we build up celebrities in our society because they (a celebrity in construction) idealize our dreams of one day obtaining boundless power, fame and fortune. Then when you do meet goal, and you no longer represent the struggle to lose that they can identify with and are seeking... they start to resent you and your presence. After all, you're thin, you don't know how "hard" it is for them, you best just shut up else you're an insensitive condescending know it all. There's a lot of suppressed envy and resentment and hate sent your way. This is just how we eventually start to resent the very same celebrity we make, once they are "finished" and therefore we cannot use them any longer to represent our own dreams of "Making it". Once you have made it, people can't use you to symbolize their own dreams of success because you are more alien and too far away.

It's just as true of weight loss as it is with fame. Human nature I guess.

This is a skinny thing I fear. One thing I noticed are that posters who are thin are eventually made to feel unwanted unless they cover up their thinness by hiding their stats or otherwise apologizing for being (or obtaining) thinness. I've never seen a thin poster have a totally easy time with their thinness here, no matter the nature of the thinness (meaning ex-fat people have a hard time, just as thin people who never were formally obese). I've decided it's possible to get along if you are very careful in who and how you give advice... if you shy away from the endless judgmental remarks of yourself & the weight reduced (while making extra sure nothing you post can seem condescending or judgmental of those still struggling with weight)... and if you basically make an extreme effort not to stick out as an alien element (because, sadly, you are an alien now).

Sadly, our own maintenance community is very weak. I don't know if this is because, ironically, we make it so hard on ourselves to feel supported that we stop fighting the fight, if very few of us maintain success because of commitments or what... but either way, you are going to have to accept you aren't going to feel the same warmth and welcomeness that you used to feel here. It's no ones fault really. We've changed, and they can't relate, it's just how it is ... sad but true.

KaiNiki,
Don't feel embarassed at all for keeping accurate stats. What you are doing comes from owning up to a problem and handling it responsibility. The mind set that wouldn't change stats to reflect an undesirable weight change is one of denial. Unless you get realistic, you can't fix a problem you aren't formally acknowledging, right? Lots of us say we'll deal with it "later" so there's no need to think of yourself as heavier (lol) but this is just justification and denial pure and simple.

One thing I've discovered in maintenance is that indulgences MUST instinctually go hand and hand with compensation, like a second nature reflex. When I was learning how to type, my typing teacher taught the class that whenever you finish a word, always hit the space bar. This way your words naturally are spaced apart and you never have to "try" to keep them that way.
Weight maintenance is the same thing. You must make it a habit, a reflex, to under eat prior (and after) a big indulgence. "Handling it later" is code for "I'm not gonna do it"... then you wake up one day and your fattest clothes don't fit anymore. I'm getting that way. I don't worry about eating too much now because I know it's instinct to eat less before and later and my weight always stays the same.
Also our bodies help a lot. When I over eat I am naturally less hungry, when I eat too little I get hungrier. So it's not all conscious... my body helps a lot too if I just keep it balanced so it can regulate itself.

Sorry for the bit of support & advice in this hostile thread but I think it was necessary .

"I'm a victim!"

"No, I am!"

"I am!"

"I'm a bigger victim than you!"

"You're a fatter victim, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're a bigger victim! I'm the real victim here!"

"The fact that you think you're the bigger victim shows you've forgotten what it means to be a victim! I'm the true, suffering victim!"


God, how I hate the culture of victimization this country has developed, and this thread bloody reeks of it.

Well, you have a point. But, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that just because there is a culture of pleading unwarranted victimization doesn't mean that true victimization doesn't occur. Funnily enough, it's generally the truly victimized that don't go on and on about it though.

Gosh, I never thought of myself as a victim...victims, in my opinion, are the folks that just lost everything to a storm! Victims are folks who get their cars stolen or beaten up for their shoes. And, if I am being more vocal about what is going on...well maybe because I am tired of what has been going on around here! Woo has really put this all into place for me let me tell you that! And, just because she and others like her are speaking out, well it doesn't make them or me whiners or victims. It makes them people with feelings and emotions who are just expressing themselves. The original poster...because she stated her feelings about the subject...does that mean she has allusions of being a victim? Nope. None of us are victims...now maybe we are all whining a bit... but sometimes emotions have to be stated in order for healing to begin. Does comparing this to the elderly and their value in a family unit cross the line or can they be closely compared. After all, like the elderly, those of us who have lost most if not all of our weight, do have much to contribute around here...so why are so many trying to stick us in nursing homes to never be heard from or looked at again? What kind of threat can we possibly pose around here? Maybe we aren't a threat, but a reminder...a reminder that obviously has the same effect as salt on an open wound.

Wooo:
I did not say, nor did I mean to imply that you had an easy weight loss or that you have an easy time maintaining it. I was trying to illustrate the opposite. It was also clear in my post, I thought, that the sacrifices that you so eloquently describe, are NOT FOR ME! Remember the part that began: "I would rather maintain a size 14 than....."?

I assume that the word that ruffled your feathers was: <BetyLou assumes the Commando Crawl position this time to avoid getting caught in the crossfire> "disorder". That's a pretty strong word and I'll try not to insult anyone with it in the future, no matter how much my opinion differs about the level of their eating obsessions.

Let's start at the beginning here by saying: Hi Wooo...nice to meet you...I've seen your pictures...you look great (NOT anorexic!)

Now a little bit about me: Only a decade ago, I was at 160 lbs and was happily maintaining it with a muscle building plan and and up to two hours a day at the gym. I loved it! I had time for it! Frankly, I had nothing better to do but work out, go to the market every day for fresh foods to create my enormous meals and snacks to take to work. I never counted calories. I enjoyed everything that I ate. My focus was on whole foods. I ate as much as I wanted, whenever I was hungry.

I am not going to, as you say "bleat about how tough that I have it" losing weight now. (For the record, my losses have averaged 2 lbs/week since joining the forum, and, intellectually, I am content with that!) I know that I am miles away from my former slim self and I know what mistakes that I have made to get here, and what other circumstances will now make it more difficult to lose again.

Do I wish that I could snap my fingers and be your size? Absolutely! But that's not how it happens. It's hard work. And I CHOOSE NOT TO DO IT YOUR WAY! But, your opinions still count and so do mine.

Getting back to the point of this thread....(I think!)....
People with a lot of weight to lose often know how they got overweight, and may even have a lot more experience than the thinner folks when it comes to diet, nutrition, and even excercise!

But, I suppose it would be similar to compare it to a smoker giving advice on how to quit while puffing on a smoke themselves. Or a drunk telling you what you should do to stop drinking. I can understand the resistance to heeding the advice of a person who does not appear to heed it themselves.

These stats in the forum are motivational and celebrational and are a lot of fun. I don't know if we will ever get past the assumptions that are made about people by the numbers that we post.

[QUOTE] Sadly, our own maintenance community is very weak. I don't know if this is because, ironically, we make it so hard on ourselves to feel supported that we stop fighting the fight, if very few of us maintain success because of commitments or what... but either way, you are going to have to accept you aren't going to feel the same warmth and welcomeness that you used to feel here. It's no ones fault really. We've changed, and they can't relate, it's just how it is ... sad but true.[\QUOTE]

Very interesting observation. I would think that those of you who feel so maligned and unappreciated here would gravitate towards a place where you could make a community where you feel safe and appreciated.

For what it's worth, I think the distinction that it's only those who have achieved their weight goals that experience alienation from the forum might want to look at other common denominators. To be blunt, I find common personality traits and communication styles to be a larger common ground in those that experience strife on this board than weight loss success.

Val,

I have to say that I would have guessed that NOTHING could have pulled me from lurkdom on this thread, but I have to now.

I completely agree that there seems to be a definite similarity in the personalities of those who seem aggrevated by this thread. (Yes, I know...I'm off ridiculously labelling emotions here). I think that Tater's original post was dead on. I can't begin to say how many times I've been sickened by reading the generalized "you don't want it bad enough" nonsense that runs around here. I will agree that there are some who think this should be easy while they overeat and cheat, but weighed against those I know and love here that truly struggle I believe that us "strugglers" are in the majority.

I hope to NEVER "want it enough" to risk my health or let it consume my life. I never want to be close enough to an eating disorder to even be accused of it. I don't give a rats hind quarters who disagrees, but my opinion counts to at least one person. Me.


Sam

AMEN

(I wish I had just said it that way instead of breaking out into the long-winded Woooism that I posted above!)

We actually have maintainers, members and moderators who don't experience this. I think some who may feel alienated due to reaching goal are those who think that by the virtue of losing weight, they should tell others what they should do, and get offended if their opinions are disagreed with.

Inadvertantly, this attitude strikes a cord with many members, and feels like the stares you get in the supermarket, when people stare at the content of your shopping cart, or they tell you shouldn't eat this or that.

From my observations, the most successful coaches here, are the ones who offer their "tough love" advice to their close buddies. And with others, they should be willing to accept disagreement, without taking it personally. Once someone considers it a duety to "save" others with their own opinions or methods, it quickly goes down hill from there.

Wa'il

You are a GENIUS!!! you hit the nail on the head!

An allusion is an indirect or casual reference. I think illusion is the word you're looking for.

I have read this entire thread and a few others in a similar vein (yes, I need a life). It seems to me that some people are actually LOOKING for things to be offended by. I've met people like this (and worked for one), who would take any innocent or even well-meaning comment and twist it into an insult directed at them.

Sam, I think you've hit the nail on the head with some of the frustration being expressed in this thread starting with the original rant of not appreciating the notion that is being expressed by some that those who have not lost large amounts of weight in record time have less valid opinions/knowledge/ideas than those who have. Based on that idea, if I want advice on how to get skinny, maybe I should start frequenting pro-ana boards; obviously they're quite successful at it, right? Not that I would do or condone such a thing, but I think that makes a point. Everyone's idea of a healthy weight is a different one and it comes off as quite offensive to tell someone that is a higher weight than you'd choose to be at that they 'don't want it bad enough' or they'd be as thin as you. Maybe I don't want to be that thin because I happen to think it's unhealthy. Maybe I don't want to develop such an extreme fear of gaining weight that even though my periods have stopped, I can't be convinced that maybe I've gone too far. Maybe I just want to be healthy instead of obsessed with thinnness.
As for those who don't like being told that they might be too thin, you might be right. Maybe the fatter person telling you that is just jealous. Then again, maybe you are too thin and the poster is genuinely concerned about your health. Think about this; would the observation that maybe you've lost too much be any more valid or acceptable if it were coming from someone who is a normal weight or would you find yourself thinking that they just want you fatter than them because they're jealous too?

Interesting how a thread that started out with "please don't discount the opinions and advice of those who have not made it to goal yet" has become "those who have made it to goal aren't welcome and those who aren't at goal yet are jealous of those who are". I disagree with that last statement. I have seen very little true jealousy expressed here on the forum and a tremendous amount of excellent advice coming from those who are far from goal.

I'm involved in a challenge, and feel it's only fair to update my stats even if the news is bad. Good LORD did I not want to do that when I gained 3.5lbs one week! But fair is fair. Good on ya for keeping it real.