I followed the recipe above, and got Bob's ingredients like you said. My question: The total carb count on the wheat bran was 10g. Fiber was 6g. Sugar was 1 g. If using 1 cup, wouldn't the carb total be 40g, and the fiber 24g?
You had 28g?
Are there additional carbs I can take off for wheat bran?

Ok...

I am curious:

My Breadman "Ultimate" telles me - in the video and in the instruction booklet - to ALWAYS add wet first and thendry in top (including the yeast)...

But - I am a novice at this an continue to have rising/mixing problems - due to the yeast?

So... do I ignore breadman's adivce and proof the yeast with the liquid
as recommended so many times in all these lo-carb recipes?

Thanks for any help to a novice (4 loafs - 1 edible lo-carb, 2 throw aways, and one honey-wheat for my wife which has yet to be tasted/eaten)

Ross

If you're sure the yeast is good, I don't think proofing the yeast first is necessary. I have found that working with vital wheat gluten is very tricky. It doesn't like to get over kneaded, and some bread machines over knead, so the resulting bread rises and then falls too much...SO what I often do is have the machine mix and knead(only one cycle of kneading) then take the dough out of the machine and either put in in another loaf pan or shape it into rolls, then let it rise for an hour, and then bake..

Just some quick remarks on making bread. I've never tried to make lowcarb bread, but I have made many many loaves of other kinds, and have read a few books on breadmaking.

The proofing of the yeast, although not always needed seems to result in a better bread for me. And most books on bread making I've read recommend it. They call it softening the yeast, and it seems to help transition the yeast from being dormant, to the hardworking sugar consuming gas factories they will become. When making one loaf where I poof the yeast and one where I don't, the one where I've proofed the yeast always comes out better.

Also a side note here, honey seemes to make a better bread than sugar. Since it's so much sweeter, and has a better effect on the yeast, you need less of it though, so this would take some experimenting to find the right amount. I used to add a teaspoon of honey, 1/2 teaspoon of salt (be careful of your salt content in bread, it influences the effectiveness of the yeast. Too much salt, and the yeast wont work as well as it should, but not enough can also cause problems), and 1 Tablespoon of flour (not sure what to replace this with for lowcarbing), to my warm water to help get the yeast started. Worked like a charm, the bread was always very light and full flavored.

That said, in my bread machine I don't usually poof (or soften) my yeast before I make bread. Although it would probably make better loaves if I did, I just love the ability to dump everything in, push some buttons, and forget about the whole thing until I smell the warm smell of baking bread coming from my kitchen. But when I was making a large quantity of bread, or making it as a gift for someone, I wouldn't use the machine, and I always softened the yeast before hand.

Gluten is the next key factor in bread. In fact, it's probubly the deciding factor in how most bread turns out. I'm not sure exactly what 'vita gluten' is, but I can imagine using an extreemly high gluten 'flour' would change how things work. One thing is sure though, it MUST be developed before the bread is left to rise.


From this it looks like you didn't kneed the bread before you left it to rise the first time. This is is probubly why it didn't rise much for you. I can't remember the exact science of it all. But I do remember that if the gluten isn't developed the yeast can't do their job as well, and you can end up with a brick. It took me many tries to realize that I wasn't kneeding my whole wheat dough enough to develop the gluten well enough to help it rise. I ended up with many many bricks, that although they tasted good... didn't quite turn out the way I had hoped. Overworking (over kneeding) the gluten will 'break' the gluten, and give the same results. I was always so worried about breaking it, that I wasn't working it enough. You're supposed to be able to see long strands of gluten if you gentely stretch out some dough and hold it up to the light. (sort of like a web, but not really... I can't think of the right way to explain it, it's simple once you see it... just not sure how to give you a good mental picture)

A good 'test' for when the dough has risen enough is to poke it with a finger, or two. If it resists, and or pushes back out, it's not done rising. If it leaves an indentation where you pushed in, without much if any spring back, it's done. If it sighs a bit and caves in more... you've overdone it. The idea is to let the bread rise almost until done before you put it in the oven, and then let it do it's last little bit in the oven. As the heat increases, the yeast work harder... if they have any life left in them, and they make the bread rise even more than it would outside the oven. When it works just right, it's a wonderful thing to behold. When it doesn't... the bread still looks fine, and tastes good.

Bread making is a science, but it is a very tempermental one. Yeast will act different at different tempetures... humidity levels... same with flours. It always seems much more of a touchy feely kind of artwork, than a science. The principles are most definatly biochemical/chemical, but the actual pratice is much more of a: "pratice until you get a feel for it." kind of thing.

I plan on shopping around for the things I'll need to make some lowcarb bread, and then doing some experimenting to see how it all works. Will let everyone know how it turns out.

TO LORELEI:
"Vital Gluten" flour can be made by hand: Take flour, white or wheat, add water until it is a sticky gooey mess, but holds together, then stick the goo in a collander and WASH IT w(while kneading it with your fingers in cool water until the runoff turns clear (e.g. the starch has been separated and washed away, leaving primarily the gluten). Then dry it, and re-grind it. The stuff that you buy (vital wheat gluten flour) is ~ 70-75% protein, as opposed to ~15-16% for bread flour, and ~14% for flour made from "hard red winter winter wheat, ~12% for flour made from spring wheat (usually what white bleached flour is processed from).

Thanks for the rising tips. I never knew how to tell exactly when it was done--only when it wouldn't rise anymore!

Well, I'm glad some folks have had success with my bread! I still make it, and I still like it. I recently tried making rolls for a dinner party (all of us on Atkins) using this recipe and got rave reviews, so I think I'm on to something. Good luck to all of you!

Here are answers to some of the posts I've seen (and missed). I'm no expert on bread-making. These answers simply reflect my experiences and observations after making dozens of these loaves:


Coriolis:

I think you may have let the yeast sit too long. A 1 1/2-inch frothy head is far more than I have ever seen. It may be possible that the yeast consumed all of the sugar before it was mixed with the other ingredients, and consequently had no gas left to raise the bread. When I make bread, I just verify that it starts bubbling a little bit (just a film, if you will) before I start folding in the other ingredients. This usually takes ~15 minutes. Note: I live in a dry, higher-altitude region -- your mileage may vary.

I wouldn't worry about the yeast consuming the sugar. If some of the sugar remains unconsumed, it really won't affect the carb count a great deal.


Lorelei:

It's actually called "vital wheat gluten", which has far more protein and far fewer carbs than the similarly named "high-gluten flour". As Azraelle pointed out, it may be possible to make the stuff, but I'm a lazy bread-maker so I opted to buy a 25 lb. bag of the stuff from the "Bob's Red Mill" web site for ~$30:

http://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/...&product_ID=400

Rmccloud:

It may not be necessary to "test" the yeast, but my results have always been better when I have done so. As another poster noted, we're not really testing the yeast as much as we're softening the yeast. My opinion, based on having tried this recipes both ways, is that softening the yeast makes it more active. If you let it soften too long, however, I think it will consume all of the sugar and you could easily end up with a short loaf.

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this recipe. I've made this bread twice and think that I'll always have a loaf of it around. I use an electric knife to cut it thin and then toast it. It's yummy!

I tried this recipe but in m case there was too much water. I tried a cup of it taste is ok net try will be less h2o.

What's the skinny on gluten wheat flour? I have a har time finding any thing labeled this way. Looking foreward to your sugestions jebsr

Your bread is absolutly wonderful. My DH and I keep raving about it.Great job mhampton.

bump 'cause I need it today .

MY POST #18 HAS AN INCORRECT LINK--IT SHOULD BE:
HERE (OPEN IN NOTEPAD)

Well, I tried this bread... Made a two-pound loaf, because that's what my bread machine does... Holy. I doubled the recipe, and had to take the bread out and bake it in the oven, because it was HUGE!!! It was about 4 inches out of the top of the breadmaker. Oh well. It turned out great, though. This time, I'm gonna try to reduce the sugar and yeast and see what happens... I'll keep you posted.

WHICH RECIPE WAS IT, Vermithrax?

It was the very first recipe in this thread... By mhampton. I just modified it, and am baking again... I reduced the sugar and yeast, and also took 1/2 cup of bran out and put 1/2 cup of ground flax in... Oughtta be interesting.