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  #1186   ^
Old Fri, Mar-29-19, 03:27
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,203
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Darn, I hate when I’ve typed a long reply and then the phone eats it. 😡 Yeah, the “official” Obesity Code Network is the FB group I’m on. Maybe I do need to try longer fasts since nothing else has worked in the last 10 years. I just have not been able to do it! 20:4 is pretty doable but anything longer gets really difficult.

Debbie, That FB page moves so fast I don’t read many posts, but I like the Files for a dose of sanity. Now members will insist on only water fasts, not even a cup of coffee, or somehow you are not "doing it right" or not getting any autophagy. Thankfully when I started back in 2014, the patient instructions allowed a list of beverages and fats and I used them all. I worked into 36-42 hour fasts by having a breakfast and lunch of coffee with a little cream or CO, and a "dinner" of chicken broth and decaf/sleeptime tea before bed. Figured five 10 calorie cups of broth (not homemade either!) was better than falling face first into a creamy casserole.

All those original instructions are in Post #1 of this thread on a web.archive.

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Mar-29-19 at 03:34.
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  #1187   ^
Old Fri, Mar-29-19, 06:41
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Posts: 4,167
 
Plan: Atkins 72~Induction
Stats: 170/140/140 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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Janet, thanks for the sanity. We tend to be obsessed with perfection when it's impossible. Maybe this trait is part of my own frailty.

One of the many diets I went on in the 70s was the one where I went for a shot of preganant mare's urine (I'm sure it wasn't) every morning and at no fat and fewer than 500 kcals daily. As I was dancing 8 shows a week while on this plan, the weight loss was extreme and rapid.

Currently there's a diet in vogue, the Fasting Mimicking Diet, which I believe is the same thing without the horses.

What I've gleaned over the years is that my body thinks of anything under 500 kcals per day as a Fast. I think that's why, when I discovered this thread three years ago, it was simple for me to embrace Dr. Fung's Protocol. It worked for me using broth and the other incremental fats you mentioned.
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  #1188   ^
Old Fri, Mar-29-19, 06:59
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,139
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
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Im interested in the details because I have a cherished friend with T1D and she has been experiencing a 2am blip in her BG, THe docs cant figure it out.

Of course, LC is not within her line of sight yet.

Glenda-- the hormone is extracted from the mare's urine. You definitely didnt get a shot of the urine.
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  #1189   ^
Old Fri, Mar-29-19, 07:08
patriciakr's Avatar
patriciakr patriciakr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,269
 
Plan: CALP with Primal Leanings
Stats: 368/291.2/160 Female 5' 4
BF:toodmnmch
Progress: 37%
Location: In the woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I am not greatly interested in the minutae and I have pretty much come to this conclusion for myself. If I stick to a very low carb/keto diet I am doing the best thing I can for my health. I don't have to know all the details. I understand that other people are fascinated by this stuff. I am not. I just want to know the best way for me to be eating to maintain my health. I think I am doing that.

Where's my "like" button and "ditto" button?
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  #1190   ^
Old Fri, Mar-29-19, 12:10
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 856
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE2BEME
I really love the Zero fasting app and have been using it for the last few weeks. It says that my daily average for fasting is about 20 hours a day. I usually do 20-24 hours during the weekdays and 16 or 18 on the weekends. I know that longer would be better, but at what point do we just say to ourselves that this is “good enough”?
For what it's worth, Fung considers what you're doing (20:4, 16:8, etc.) to be time-restricted eating (TRE) and recommends that you do this on the days that you don't fast. Nonetheless, I hear lots of people have had success with this to lose weight. If it isn't producing the results you want and you want to go from TRE to intermittent fasting (IF), Janet had some good advice about drinking broth, coffee or tea with cream, etc. to get through those times on actual fast days when you really think you want to eat. After a while you build fasting "muscle" and it becomes easier. The first time I had a full day fast, I think I drank three cups of broth and two cups of tea with cream throughout the day! Along the way, I also had a failed fast, where I ended up eating at 7pm, because I just couldn't stop thinking about food. Yesterday, on just my ninth full-day fast (42-hour), I had a cup of tea with cream as I sat down to watch TV in the evening, and that's it (besides water, of course). It does get easier as time goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE2BEME
There’s still so much we don’t know, according to Dr. Phinney, about the longer fasts. Is it possible that longer than 24 hours, on average, gets into diminishing returns territory with regards to body composition as well as quality and enjoyment of life?
I don't think that autophagy reaches its peak rate until sometime after 36 hours, so there are increasing returns to that point, certainly. There's masses we don't know about autophagy, but I see it's potential benefits in fighting cancer, Alzheimer's, excess skin from losing weight, macular degeneration, and many others issues, that I want to try fasting in a way that regularly boosts autophagy. I think at some point I'll try a 72-hour fast to see how it goes, but I think that, for me, beyond that there would probably be a diminishing return regarding enjoyment of life, as you put it.
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  #1191   ^
Old Fri, Apr-05-19, 12:03
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 856
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Caffeine has been listed at times as not so good for the liver during a reboot; and some opponents to fake sugars also eliminate crystal lite etc. Both eliminate useful tools for me. ( Caffeine helps my brain function to make better decisions though Dr Amen says "no".)
Caffeine is beneficial to autophagy, so feel free to drink coffee throughout your fast if autophagy is your goal. Coffee Induces Autophagy
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  #1192   ^
Old Tue, Apr-09-19, 06:52
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,978
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
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Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
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Time for the umpteenth reminder repost ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The original post explaining Active Low-Carber's policy on extended fasting is in the Dr.Fung/Obesity Code thread in Diabetes section .. we repost from time to time as necessary ..
Quote:
Concerns have been raised over the increased use of extended water-only fasts and other forms of severely restricted nourishment for prolonged periods of time. This is in contrast to the various published IF (Intermittent Fasting) protocols which advocate short-duration "fasts" of 18 to 24 hours, with optimal nutrition on non-fasting days in between.

Short-duration IF has been shown to be safe for weight loss in overweight and obese adults. However, even the expert authors of these IF programs recommend prolonged fasting ONLY under medical supervision. Here at Active Low-Carber, we are in full agreement with this position.

Please note that Forum Rule #2 states:
Quote:
... It is beyond the scope of our support community to prescribe a diet plan for you, so we encourage you to consult your doctor and read one or more of the published program books. Once you've decided which plan is right for you, we are here to help you along the way. Please note, we only discuss published plans, not proprietary, clinic-only type of plans as these require personal and/or professional supervision, and we cannot give medical advice or service..
Thus .. seeking support, encouragement and/or promotion of prolonged fasting is consdered beyond the scope of this forum and such discussion is not appropriate here. We understand that some members may indeed be under medical supervision for such a regimen; if they want to document their experience it should be confined to the relative privacy of their journal.


Thanks for understanding,

Another problem is that past discussions about prolonged fasting have ended up being pro-anorexia triggers, including tips and tricks for ignoring hunger as long as possible, and cheerleading. This has caused some members recovering from eating disorders to not feel safe here, which is not acceptable.

There are other sites where you can seek expert advice and support for extended fasting if that's what you want to do. Dietdoctor.com is one. Dr. Fung's Obesity Code facebook page is another.


Doreen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen T
Folks, the policy applies to prolonged water-only or dry fasts that extend beyond 24 - 36 hours. Short-duration IF, alternate-day and one meal a day are fine to discuss and share experiences. Other members here have incorporated these techniques into their low-carb plan with success.

Please do not keep harping on this issue. If you choose to pursue extended fasting, we wish you well and simply ask that you seek advice and support from experienced persons elsewhere.


Doreen
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  #1193   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 04:59
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,203
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Reader's Digest!! talk about the MAIN in Mainstream publication.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/successf...y-dr-jason-fung

Quote:
Popular mass market magazine Reader’s Digest just featured Dr. Jason Fung and the inspiring, dramatic stories of seven individuals who reversed their type 2 diabetes using low-carb diets and intermittent fasting.

Reader’s Digest: How 7 people actually reversed their diabetes

https://www.rd.com/health/condition...their-diabetes/


US nutrition, health and food writer Jill Waldbieser highlights the success stories of men and women who reversed their type 2 diabetes by incorporating intermittent fasting into their lifestyle, usually with a keto or LCHF diet, to achieve better health. These dietary and lifestyle changes resulted in reduction or elimination of medications, as well as weight loss, and improved health markers such as blood pressure, cholesterol and inflammation.

Among the success stories, Dan Shadoin, 57, was 380 pounds (172 kilos) and already on three medications for his diabetes when his doctor told him he would have to go on insulin, a drug Shadoin did not want to take. Although at first skeptical, Shadoin adopted fasting and a low-carb diet, and within four months had not only lost 68 pounds and avoided the need for insulin, but also:

I had stopped taking everything and both my blood glucose and my blood pressure stayed low, lower than they’ve ever been.

With such a positive mainstream article, word is getting out to the general public about the success of the low-carb diet and intermittent fasting for type 2 diabetes management and reversal.

While so far the article has only appeared in the US edition, the magazine often republishes its US stories in any of its 40 international editions, in 23 languages. With 10.5 million global readers, Reader’s Digest is still the largest paid circulation magazine in the world.

Check out the full article for all seven inspirational stories.

Looking for more from Dr. Fung? He is one of our expert contributors at Diet Doctor, with a regular column and many videos. Our congratulations go out to Fung and his team for motivating others to achieve their health goals through intermittent fasting and a low-carb lifestyle, and for helping to spread the word about how effective it can be!
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  #1194   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 06:09
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,904
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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WOW! Now that's mainstream.
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  #1195   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 06:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,203
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Crikey, 10.5 million global readers, who knew?

I was the first to post it on the OCN FB page, and have had a hundred "likes" flash across my screen.

And this was the day after I found a video from the nationally ranked St. Luke's Cardiology Dept supporting Fasting, contrary to the AHA and ADA diet suggestion to eat 6 times a day to "boost your metabolism".

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=437281810348146

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Apr-10-19 at 06:21.
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  #1196   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 07:00
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,107
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Reader's Digest!! talk about the MAIN in Mainstream publication.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/successf...y-dr-jason-fung

I love this, thank you, Janet, for posting this. Grass roots is having an influence without endorsement from the medical, pharmaceutical, and nutrition research communities. The DGAs have not changed dramatically, but somehow this valuable information becomes available due to word of mouth from many n=1 experiences and some bold physicians who are getting compelling clinical results. Very encouraging!!!
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  #1197   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 08:31
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,904
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
The DGAs have not changed dramatically, but somehow this valuable information becomes available due to word of mouth from many n=1 experiences and some bold physicians who are getting compelling clinical results.


The good part of our current authoritarian breakdown: some of the authorities are not to be trusted, and skepticism of some institutions is really overdue.
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  #1198   ^
Old Wed, Apr-10-19, 12:45
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,139
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
The good part of our current authoritarian breakdown: some of the authorities are not to be trusted, and skepticism of some institutions is really overdue.


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  #1199   ^
Old Sun, Apr-14-19, 10:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,203
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Darn, I hate when I’ve typed a long reply and then the phone eats it. 😡 Yeah, the “official” Obesity Code Network is the FB group I’m on. Maybe I do need to try longer fasts since nothing else has worked in the last 10 years. I just have not been able to do it! 20:4 is pretty doable but anything longer gets really difficult.


Debbie, I thought of you reading Megan's new post on Controlling Hunger. https://www.dietdoctor.com/controlling-hunger-part-1
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  #1200   ^
Old Sun, Apr-14-19, 17:24
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,273
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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It’s true I’m never super hungry anymore. I was out and about the other day and decided to treat myself to an omelet for breakfast at a popular local diner. Actually it was 1 pm and my first meal since 5 pm the night before, but it was the meal to break my fast. 😀 Anyway I ordered the house omelet (3 eggs with bacon, cheddar, mushrooms, onions and green peppers) with the side of sliced tomatoes (rather than their “normal” side of grits, home fries, or hash browns). It was delicious but I was so stuffed after eat just half that I had to take the rest home in a to-go box for the next day! I never did that with an omelet before.

So it is rather nice to rarely feel a lot of hunger, but by 20-22 hours into a fast I start to feel weak and shaky. I guess I just have to get my head around some of the various solutions they suggest like taking some salt (ugh, nasty), or bone broth (hate it &#128542, or pickle juice (double yuck &#129314. I really love this plan but it gets harder to stick to when they want you to eat or drink things you loathe!
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