I was wondering... now this excludes bodybuilders and athletes who have tailored nutrition to meet specific goals.
Why, on low carb, is everyone so afraid of eating too little? We are not going to blow up and get fat for eating under 1700 calories. This occured to me the other day as something that seemed strange. I travel to Europe a couple of times a year and most people I know there eat about half the amound of food, if that, that people I know here. They are not emaciated, they are not fat, they are generally althletic albeit not "beefy." Why is it so tabu to lower your calories when you're on a muscle sparing keto diet?

I went through a period of over a year of intense exercise and lot of "strict dieting." I should have been losing a lot of fat.. I should have hit goal - but I didn't and it was frustrating. The only thing that triggered fat loss was drastically lowering calories. I had calculated that 1800-2000 was good for me - I am 5 10" muscular, I was working out strenuously most days of the week... but I had to eat 1000-1300.

I'm not saying that low calories are for everyone, just wondering why it seems to be such a sin... and thinking that perhaps our idea of low calories is perhaps a little distorted. Food is good, I love food... I reaaallly love food but unless I'm pmsing or there is some social gathering I don't see the reason behind defending huge quantities of it on a daily basis.

I was interested to read your comments.

You do not have to eat lots of food, but you must eat enough so that your metabolism thinks a famine is around the corner and slows down to conserve the fat that you have.

In general, we recommend you should eat between 10 and 12 times your bodies weight in calories. I tend to eat just under 10 times myself, but know I must not eat less than my basal level, as given in Fitday.

I would say that for your weight you should be eating around 1500 calories a day. It is very easy to eat a lot more. Whilst excess fat calories will not lead to significant weight gain it will stop your own bodies fat stores being used up, hence you stall.

Looks like you have done pretty good though.

IMO, it's because we've had low fat/low calorie burned into our minds enough already. Getting enough calories to heal the metabolism actually takes EFFORT for some to undo the brainwashing.

Low fat low calorie is most likely burned into minds as the solution for weight loss - but how many Americans actually eat that way regularly?

They may do it... and it doesn't work, or it works and wreaks havoc with their system and they gain it back again in a vicious cycle...but as a lifestyle I don't think it's something that the general population follows. Maybe they try to make low fat choices, but certainly not a combination of both as a WOL.

I'm not saying I can't see why people need to leave the low fat low cal mindset behind - I agree with that. Just questioning the fear of low calories. If your ratios are right there is nothing wrong with eating slightly below maintenance, which, for an average woman is not very much.

I guess I'm also fed up with the hype of Atkins - the new popular fad diet and people sayiing you can eat all you want!!! Tons of food, smother everything in cheese and butter, eat two double burgers and a salad too!! Two pounds of wings is fine for dinner... massive omeletes with bacon. Then - "why did I not lose weight after the first 2 weeks? Low carb doesn't work, it's only water." "Oh yuck I feel icky from all of that greasy food, low carb sucks because the food is too fatty and greasy."

(that wasn't an Atkins put down, Atkins is a Godsend for people who are willing to make a change in their woe for their health... and I will be eternally grateful for him sharing his knowledge with the world)


People seem to want to have huge portions and lose weight too - that can't happen for everyone.

Plain and simple-everyone is different and their weightloss can be triggered by a myriad of different things. Allergies, hormones, genes, insulin resistance, open-mouth-insert-food syndrome, can't(won't)-get-off-my-keister symndrome... In other words, Atkins won't work for everyone, Low cal does work for some, esp. those who don't have a lot to lose and don't have rabid carb cravings. I think the cravings make the difference between those who need low carb and those who need low cal. Allergies are often manifested in cravings for certain foods-dairy & wheat are the biggies-and many people lose weight when they eliminate that family of foods. Yeast in the system can make a big difference too. In fact, maybe those on Atkins who have stalled should probably take a look at yeast as prossibility. Esp. if you eat cheese or have taken a lot of antibiotics over the course of time. Dr. William Crook wrote several books on the subject.

Meg, another issue for you is do you really need to lose that last 7.5 lbs? I can remember being your age and 5"10" and thinking that I was an absolute blimp at 145lbs! My main problem is that I was pretty flat and never had a waist so, in a sense, I was a slim blimp! My suggestion is to eat what you are comfortable with, that you feel healthy with and that doesn't cause you to gain weight. If you eat too little you may reset your setpoint too low which may come back to haunt you as you go through the many changes in life-working, marriage, pregnancy, child-rearing & hormonal swings throughout. Don't sweat the 7.5 lbs-don't beat yourself up over them and end up messing up your metabolism for life by putting your body into starvation mode. There are probably more than a few people on this forum who could tell you about low cal diets they were on when they were young but that rebounded on them as they got older. More than once I've read post from people who yo-yoed themselves right up the scale!

Looking back the three things that I know now that I wish I had done for the past 25 years are:1) Drink your WATER!!!!!, 2) Avoid refined carbs (my BIG downfall) and 3) get some form of exercise regularly.

In terms of how much people are actually eating on this WOE supposedly the fat helps to satiate our hunger and we won't eat all that much any way. I know that when I eat the high fat I eat a whole lot less unless I eat beyond the satiation point. It all comes down to this--no diet is for everyone because everyone is different!

Connie

PS Meg, I have a few fellows in this family who would be fascinated to find out about making bagpipes!!! They keep threatening to. In the meantime they have contented themselves with didgerados (sp?) made from PVC pipes!

In my own personal experience, my fear of low-calories comes from watching Dad try to starve away the fat that was choking the life out of him..and each diet cut him lower and lower, until he literally gained weight on 700 calories a day!!

He was driven to "stomach stapling" which killed him.

I can't speak for anyone else, but seeing the "starvation response" first hand, I'm careful to not cut my calories too low, even if it means I lose very slowly.

I'm just wondering about this whole question too. I've been stalled at the same weight for about 7 months (annoying as I only want to lose another 3-4 pounds), and am trying to work out what the problem could be. As I'm only about 113 pounds, does the 10-12x body weight still apply. If so, that would only be about 1130- 1300 calories, which seems like the levels I used to be eating on a low calorie diet (the reason I switched to Atkins!!) Wont the body go into 'starvation mode' at those levels? At the moment I'm eating around 1500-1700 calories a day, so do you think that is what is causing my stall?

I suspect this is one of the most debated questions on here. Especially for those of us who have been doing this for awhile. I do think, based on all the info out there, that "starvation mode" is a real thing. However, I think it's a bit lower than most people think. For those of us who are big with lots of fat still on our bodies <sigh> it's probably less than 1000 to 1200 calories per day. It may even be less for smaller folks.

I also believe that you have to have a calorie deficit between what you eat and what you expend in order to lose the weight. Finding that happy place between starvation mode and expenditure can be a bit tricky. And it will be different for everyone. Connie's reply is right on. There are a lot of variables.

I hesitate to give any advice here. North American ideas of what is low calorie don't seem to match the rest of the world. If you're doing everything else right, and not losing.. it may be a caloric issue.

A LOT of people lose better by upping the calories.
I'm 5 10" I do intense sprint workouts 3-4 times a week, am muscular and do upperbody workouts as well. I do not lose weight unless I'm under 1400 calories. I always aim for 1000 calories a day (WHEN LOSING FAT NOT MAINTAINING) and end up eating around 1200 or 1300 usually, becasue I exercise very hard and my body "tells" me to eat something more.

It's easy to maintain weight on a much higher calorie diet when it's low carb, it's also easier to lose weight on more calories. but eventually - depending on your body, there will come a time when calories become an issue if you want to get down to certain level of bodyfat.

I think there is a difference between someone's body wasting away on 1000-1300 calories low fat.. because they're not getting the protein or fat their body needs to function properly, and someone losing fat on 1000-1300 of low carb....mainly because I'm DOING low calorie, low carb and can see and feel. what my body is going through. I have never done low cal, low fat. Of course, how healthy the diet is depends on what kind of low carb food you eat. Salads, brocolli eggs, beef, oils, butter vs sausages and bacon and fried wings. There's a difference in the health aspect, even if not from the weight loss aspect.

Getting the last of the fat off isn't easy and for most people who have had weight problems isn't going to happen without some hard work.

Yeah I do agree. One other factor I was thinking could be stalling me is the fact that my fitday ratios average about 60% fat, 35% protein and 5% carbs, and my average protein is about 130g. Is this too much protein for someone small? It's difficult cos I would ideally like to up my fat to about 75%, but if I do my calories go through the roof (if I were to stick to 1200-1300 calories a day as recomended, at that kind of fat level, it's practically a fat-fast)... Help!

I'll pop by your journal later and go into more detail. You're consuming quite a bit of protein for your size - are you weight training? If so no prob.. but to change the ratios find ways to make your meat portions smaller. For example, if you're making burgers or meatballs - cut the ground beef mixture in half with minced portabellos, and eat with a little high fat sauce. For me the easiest thing is just to work on keeping the meat portions small - feels sucky at first when you're used to a big slab, but u get used to it. Increase veggies to give your food more volume. Eating dressings or butters/oils on your veggies will increase your fat % in no time if you decrease protein portions.

Thanks Meg, that would be awesome. Here's the link:
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Public...tml?Owner=avlev

Any comments would be much appreciated! I'm trying consciously to up the fat as of yesterday (shooting for about 70-75%) but am a bit worried about the calorie level as a result.... We'll see how it goes!
Good tips about how to reduce protein; a bit of a bummer that I have gotten so hooked on soy protein isolate tho (use it for all my baking, and in my morning pancake). Am planning to sub in a slice of Karen's New York cheesecake w/ brazil nut crust in stead for breakfast (it's cooking in the oven right now. Yummy!!)
It's kind of difficult though, as one chicken breast (according to fitday) has 60g protein...
PS No, no weight training. I do 30mins on an exercise bike 5 or 6 times a week, and do either one or two 1 1/2 hr yoga classes a week

Hi, sorry I wasn't at home for a while and forgot about this thread. I can't view your fitday.. you'll have to post the breakdowns in one of our journals.


Give me an update on how you're doing!
take care,
Meg

Hi Meg - Thanks for thinking of me! Really kind of you... Here are my Fitday averages for the past month:

Average Calories
source grams cals %total
Total: 1812
Fat: 128 1152 65%
Sat: 32 285 16%
Poly: 18 164 9%
Mono: 37 336 19%
Carbs: 39 88 5%
Fiber: 17 0 0%
Protein: 125 500 28%
Alcohol: 3 24 1%

Am having a really hard time trying to reduce protein. I mean I bought a cod fillet the other day for my dinner, and that alone had 45g of protein in it... That would put me over my recommended daily intake. I just don't understand how people keep it low like that!!

Meg-

You pose a very interesting question and it's one I'm really at odds with myself. I had always been scared of the whole "starvation mode" thing. I made sure to eat enough cals. In the beginning (starting at 195lbs) I was averaging 1700-1800 cals per day and losing great. Not 1950-2340 cals which would have been my 10-12x but surely nowhere near starving either. I've never been a big eater volume-wise. I just ate the wrong things (and then had 2 kids to boot). As I got smaller on this WOE, I reduced the cals in proportion to the weight I've lost and kept losing. I've always kept my fat upwards of 65%. I tried reducing it for a short time too but that didn't help things!

Sure, I've had my ups and downs and things are going MUCH slower now because I'm nearer to goal-- a slowdown at this point is a given. But even 20 lbs ago I noticed I really had to start watching the cals or I would not loose. Now I've whittled it down slowly to 1100-1300 ish cals per day and only loose when I'm at that level (and also strict with my eating-- no LC treats for me). When I go up to 1300-1500-- NOTHING. And I've stayed at the 1300-1500 level for weeks thinking I needed that much time to get past starvation mode-- still nothing. I don't test with ketosis strips, I only go by "feel" but I stop getting ketosis symptoms when I stay over 1300-1500 cals.

Deep down I know this lower level is right for me. Again, I have NEVER been a big eater and I' have not lived a life of LF dieting. I always just ate what I wanted without thinking about it (I had 2 stints with WW in the last 12 years but they were short!). I'm really starting to think that just because everyones else's "normal" cal intake at my weight is higher than mine-- that still may naturally too much for me and my body. All the online calculators say my BMR is a little over 1400 but maybe for me, as a individual (not just a random average statistic) it should be lower. I seem to only maintain at that 1300-1500 level.

But then when I eat lower cals I feel guilty. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Like people will go into my journal, see my menus and say to themselves "oh my, she's starving herself!" I find myself trying to sneak extra cals into my day sometimes when I don't really want/need them, strictly because I feel like I'm doing something wrong by eating a little lower cal.

So yeah, I'm confused! I guess I should just go with my gut and stay low. It's just so difficult because when I do stay low, I feel like I'm doing something I'm not supposed to . . .