Does anyone have a view on collagen powder and fasting? Does it break a fast?

My eating pattern is normally 18:6 with my first meal at lunchtime. I'm currently adding a couple of tablespoons of collagen powder to my first coffee of the morning as I've read it's very beneficial after surgery, especially with wound healing (I'm recovering from a hip replacement).

But it occurs to me, it may be breaking my fast and interfering with the autophagy process.

Isn't it a protein? Proteins break a fast.

Healing your hip is the most important thing you can do now.

(Note: I have no idea what I'm talking about - it's just my gut feeling).

If you are fasting for autophagy, no one really knows what "breaks the fast" I always used a 50 calorie limit, but that was merely my compromise between those doctors that demand Water Only, not even black coffee, and those who allowed coffee with cream, bone broth, etc.

Keto Lie #7: Fasting for longer is better: https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/. There is a link to Peter Attia's blog in this article, admitting they have no idea, but his writing short-circuited my brain.

Thanks for all your answers

Yes, you're right Ambulo, it is a protein, but it's also considered to be a supplement and they don't necessarily break a fast.

Thanks Bob, gut feeling or not, you're right in saying the healing of my hip is the most important thing I can do for now.

Thanks Janet, and if I use your 50 calorie limit, then my collagen is under that at 40 calories.

Thanks also for the link, I shall have a read through.


In the meantime, I've done a little research and came across a guide to what breaks a fast at Marks Daily Apple:
So maybe!

Probably just easier then if I don't have it in my morning coffee and have it later in the day

My gut feeling says I don't know, but probably just taking the collagen at a different time of day will be just as good. Rodent studies actually show fasting accelerating healing for skin wounds and unnecessary heart surgery. Healing normally occurs with the same sort of daily fluctuation of fuel sources and nutrient levels as anything else in the body.

Thanks for your input teaser, and I'm now taking the collagen later at lunchtime.

This makes the most sense. I'm confident, Demi, that your body will adjust and benefit, and as Bob observes, healing your hip is primary at this time. You're going to have a great recovery.

Demi, this morning I read your comment about 40 calorie collagen, and then listened to the new DietDoctor podcast on IF, episode #81. The first interview is with Dr. Kevin Gendreax, who said the the most common question he gets is "what can I have on a fast"...his answer ...limit to 35 calories. Dr. Scher's intro to the question is that we really don't know...stick with that and enjoy your collagen.

Thanks Rob. So far my recovery is going really well but obviously I want to optimise the healing process as much as I can.

Well I suppose I could always reduce the amount slightly!

Seriously though, I've made the decision to drop the collagen powder with my first coffee of the morning. Instead, I'm adding it into my bone broth, which I usually have during my first meal of the day at lunchtime, just to maximise the effect of both the collagen and the process of autophagy.

... and I shall have to listen to the podcast. Thanks for the heads up Janet

I'm still new to studying IF and fasting, but have put in hours of reading the better known sources we are familiar with.

Protein interferes.
High insulin interferes. So AS which triggers insulin spike problematic.

Dr Gundry discusses Dr Lingo's 500 cal vegetarian meals for 5 days. No meat or dairy. Said to have autophagy effect.

Based on what I know so far, collagen is likely to interfere.

I run hot and cold on Dr Gundry. He's great about the damage of lectins, but his strong vegetarian leanings don't make any sense then!

I extend my fasting window with green tea and coconut oil. Which Dr Fung says enhances the process, not break it. I keep my eating window as small as I can. Which varies

One reason I'm all over the place on this--besides breaking down dietary proteins, the gut has a role in the breakdown of endogenous proteins, the liver secretes these and the gut breaks them down into amino acids. Some of the studies looking at autophagy look at what happens to cells when they're in a nutrient bath that's deprived of amino acids. There, tiny amounts of amino acid suppress autophagy greatly, but we're looking at an unusual scenario for the individual cells, in the human body such low levels of amino acid might not be likely.

Anyways, you eat ten grams of protein. That's way more than nothing. But how does it compare to the nutrient levels usually present? I don't really know. A teaspoon--like four or five grams of glucose--is all the glucose in the human bloodstream, but there isn't that much of a perturbation from consuming 4 grams of glucose, in a non-diabetic.

The number I've seen is something like 70 grams of endogenous protein a day--comparable to what a person eats. Probably with a lower protein diet, there's decreased protein turnover and the number goes down.