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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-18-22, 14:31
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,664
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
Default Keto: Diet fad or food fix?

Quote:
BBC Radio 4

The Food Programme: Keto: Diet fad or food fix?


Dan Saladino explores keto to understand the appeal of this low carb way of eating. Featuring Gary Taubes (book) The Case for Keto), GP Dr David Unwin, Anna Tebbs (The Green Chef), Prof. Mike Lean (Glasgow University), Panagiotis Kottas (KeOntrack) and Prof. Helen Cross (Great Ormond Street Hospital).

First broadcast 16 January.
Click on the link to listen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013hch
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jan-24-22, 09:49
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Whatever "Keto" is, whether you follow a plan from a respected low carb doctor or Internet Keto, Keto is dying fast.
Even the Fast Keto podcast by Ketogenic Girl has been renamed "The Optimal Protein Podcast".

https://play.acast.com/s/fast-keto-...95-a6bec696716f

DietDoctor now works with Dr Ted Naiman and the focus of DietDoctor is clearly on Higher Protein.

Even in the month of January, Google searchs for "Keto" are a small fraction of its peak in Jan 2019. As even Ketogenic Girl admits in explaining her reasons, Keto has some quite negative connotations. Really nothing would overcome its lack of emphasis on energy density, food quality and satiety per calorie.

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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jan-24-22, 10:19
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,282
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

We get so got up in the names we give diets that we forget the important questions that the diet is supposed to address. For me the important question is always "how should I eat in order to optimize my health?"
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jan-24-22, 11:30
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
We get so got up in the names we give diets that we forget the important questions that the diet is supposed to address. For me the important question is always "how should I eat in order to optimize my health?"

Exactly. You can call it anything if the tenets of good nutrition for good health are being followed, just don't call it late for dinner if TRE is in play . . . .
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jan-01-24, 08:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

New Year’s Day, thought to check the Google trends for Keto. Past two years nearly puts it back where it started.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jan-01-24, 19:20
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,757
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

I've been keto-ish since Atkins induction over 20 years ago.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jan-02-24, 00:39
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Ditto.
Ive never googled keto. Depended on DANDR then found this forum.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jan-02-24, 03:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

The trend Google is following is "Internet Keto"… Bulletproof coffee, adding butter and bacon to everything, eating only high fat beef, high fat recipes, and a host of high calorie keto processed foods lacking micronutrients. When weight loss stops or the dreaded regain begins, "keto" is rightly getting the blame. Atkins "Low Carb" was fine as is, adding more vegetables, dairy and fruit, when "climbing the ladder." More satiety per calorie

DANDR, Dr Atkins: "“Q. Don’t calories play any role?

A. There’s no question—of course they do. A 1500-calorie, 10-gram diet will take more weight off—and more quickly—than a 2000-calorie, 10-gram diet. If the carbohydrate levels remain unchanged, then the extra caloric intake does make a difference. People who eat out of force of habit and don’t cut their quantities lose more slowly because of their high caloric intake."

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Jan-02-24 at 07:03.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jan-02-24, 07:48
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 755
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

My sister introduced me to Atkins. Carb control was all foreign to me. Once I learned carb counts it became easier than tracking calories. I also learned why I felt sleepy and had rebound hunger so soon after eating. I have binged on carbs since my early teens and still struggle to remain in control but have kept 30 lbs off and kept my glucose, a1c and fasting insulin in check. I would like to lose a few more but it probably won't happen😊
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jan-02-24, 19:14
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I've been keto-ish since Atkins induction over 20 years ago.

Me, too. And it has had it's ups and downs.

It works for me when other diets did not. I'm 65 pounds down and holding, plus I'm extremely healthy.

Sure I miss French Fries and Pecan Pie, but I'd rather be healthy.

I know others will give it up because they want their Pop Tarts or whatever and it'll fade, but I'll still eat this way.

How about you?

Bob
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jan-03-24, 06:46
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
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Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Likewise, I aim for a state of ketosis but it's not even about what the keto meter says (but it was very motivating for DH until he learned to listen to body feedback.)

Like coming back to work from lunch and feeling like I'm fighting off a coma. That was the first thing I noticed stopped happening when I went on Atkins. Got me through the "flu" of my body switching over, which was only muscle tiredness, a week or so.

Everything else felt so much better I was sure I was onto something. But there's nothing good all kinds of scam artists won't glom onto.

Doesn't ruin the concept. Had nothing to do with it in the first place, of course. But now, with marketing volume outrunning science 10 to 1, most people never do figure it out. ONE course in how to read a study, or at least know where to find out.

But one of the things about a UPF diet is how it saps motivational energy. Until I always had that after lunch feeling? That was a hugh motivator for me to keep with Atkins. Who so many people only know as low carb snack foods.

Doesn't change Atkins, either. I've basically been finding my spot on the carb ladder ever since.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jan-04-24, 20:43
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

I suppose different diets would work for different people.

I come from a family of +300 pound people.

My parents both died too soon from obesity related causes, and I saw that as my future.

I strived to keep from going there, and never got lower than 250. I tried a number of different methods, and the last one I tried was Atkins. I lost weight on that one and kept it off.

I never got past Atkins Induction. If I tried to increase my carbs over 20, my belt would get tight, and the numbers on the scale would increase.

Since then my typical diet is fewer than 20 net carbs per day, and twice as much fat as protein.

I'm extremely healthy for my age - or for any age. My doctor says I'm an easy patient, and only sees me once a year.

If you don't have your health, nothing else matters.

No amount of "fake science ad-speak" is going to convince me to do otherwise.

I like that I can find a lot of keto products, but if they go away, like the Atkins ones did, I'll do what I did between the two "fad" diets.

Bob
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jan-11-24, 04:24
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
My doctor says I'm an easy patient, and only sees me once a year.

Bob


Likewise, even though I do have a chronic autoimmune illness. But since I refused conventional treatments that regard the immune system as the problem, I gain success when I see it as a symptom.

Symptoms means a body part is crying out for help. Thinking this way has guided me through what to eat, which seems to have the greatest impact on this problem, along with weight management.

My problem is still officially undiagnosed, because it never seems to cohere into something they qualify as a disease. Another reason to avoid their well-meaning, but ultimately dangerous, ideas about what is best to do.

This was shaped by a memoir by a woman who was diagnosed with MS when it was a B-12 issue. But now, there's no UN-diagnosising her. They will simply tell her it's "in remission" and won't take it off the chart.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jan-11-24, 17:35
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
<...snip...>
This was shaped by a memoir by a woman who was diagnosed with MS when it was a B-12 issue. But now, there's no UN-diagnosising her. They will simply tell her it's "in remission" and won't take it off the chart.

Doctors are like car mechanics, some are quite good at diagnostics, and some are not so good.

Plus, some symptoms can have many causes. There is a saying, "If you hear hoofbeats, expect horses." ... ... ... ... But sometimes it might be zebras.

Sadly, once a misdiagnosis is on your record, it's there forever.

Another thing to remember, when reading so-called doctor articles in print and on the web, many are written with a preconceived agenda in mind. Some even quite false for profit.

I tend to put more weight into the peer-reviewed papers on NIH's PubMed site. Not to say they are absolute truth, but at least reviewed by other people in the same field before accepted and published.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jan-12-24, 06:52
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
I tend to put more weight into the peer-reviewed papers on NIH's PubMed site. Not to say they are absolute truth, but at least reviewed by other people in the same field before accepted and published.


Agreed. I like to read articles about the studies, and then go to the study itself, and see if I agree with writer. Or can find someone who can explain why they don't agree with the first writer.

The recent book, Toxic Superfoods, explained (with studies) that eating antioxidants being beneficial is still only a theory, and not even scientifically supported yet.

Which is where a lot of heavily marketed claims of science come from. It was right there in the mega study I hunted down with some keywords, which can be a nice shortcut getting started, especially a recent one.

It's a selling point that they didn't make up... but doesn't have much support. It was such a big deal I thought there was science there.

And I should have known better!

Which is where the book about whatever the "breakthrough" is tells much more. And if there isn't a book, just a program and a course and products, they can't fill a book with more than fluff and any studies we can look up turn out to say the opposite of what they claim.

Which is why I got the recent Gary Taubes book on diabetes. I know it will be full of stuff I will want to reference, that will give me angles of view I didn't have before.
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